Divemasters, is it really our job ?

[emelotto]

It's very unlikely that you'd be told this. It's one of those things that seems to be a "dirty little secret" in the dive industry. DMs are the workhorses of the dive industry. In the places where there are a lot of DMs available, they are often not paid a salary and work for tips only. In other places, they work for very low wage and the majority of their wages come from tips (like waiters or waitresses).
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Sorry to say that.I coudn´t see all posts, but basically there are 2 questions.
1- Are DMs working for tip?
2 - What is their role as DM? I will not address this, because you have said everething.

I know a little the "north american" mentality as I have 2 sister living there, but I totally desagree with the "tip way to live"!! Some one said that we do not have slaves anymore...it is wrong...there are a lot spread over the world, and work for tip is kind of close of that.

We give tips in Brasil (around 10%) for waiters mainly, but I doubt they can have a decent life with that amount. So, for me, tips should be used only to give some money for those who needs charity and without a service in exchange.

If DMs are considered as JOB, please build a union and ask for earns !!! If DMs decide to not work, the "bosses" will not get their money!!!

I guess people started tipping in order to get a better services, it is kind off bribe, and the "bosses" support that in order to pay less tax, so for me is totally wrong.

And after all these, when a ordinary citizen of the world gather money to travel abroad and land on sites like Caribe and meet lots of north americans, then, or we tip or we eat!!!

I am considered 3% of the reachest people in Brasil, and my earns barely reachs a trainee engineer in US. I went to Cozumel and talking with the DM, he said me that he has a USD 150k house...5 times more expensive than mine, but if you step 10 km inside Mexico, you will see people starving...how can I tip this guy???

The only way to break this chain is stop tipping, when the industry start to lose money because the accidents with bad prepared DMs working for nothing, you will see how they start to put money to generate money...I might be so naive, but here you have my opinion.

 

[Santa]

Just ask the divers what THEY prefer, and act accordingly.

As mentioned in a recent post I, and several collegues guide only for gear discounts and experience. We are only paid for course assistance - and only a symbolic fee. THat's just the way it is around here and there is no such things as tips.

I always ask customers what they want to do, but I will not baby-sit individuals for free unless they're very new and very insecure and I do consider that a special service that is potentially harmful to their perception of diving and personal responsibility.

I will offer a safe framework, brief thoroughly, suggest a profile and do what I can for the group - but it's not up to the customers to define my role as a professional. It's not a free-for-all. I adapt the plan to the conditions and they adapt to it - or not at their own risk as certified divers.

 

[500 PSI]

JimLap you are my roll model!! Even though we have never meet. You comments are positive, sincere, honest and the kind that makes me believe you are a person with a good heart and soul. It's not about almighty buck were here for! Its relationships and personal contacts with our fellow man that makes diving a sport great. Sure there are always going to be unappreciative people, rude and selfish, unskilled, and unkind; but the good people always outweigh the bad!! You words inspire me to be appreciate a DM. and when I get to be a grown up diver maybe I will get educated and can be a DM too.

 

[SadiesMom]

Sadies Mom he isn't working in the US

kb2ehj? My apologies if I missed that - his profile says he's located in Durham, NC. I know we had the Civil War and all, but my recollection was that the whole secession thing didn't work out well, right?

 

[midwayman]

The only way to break this chain is stop tipping, when the industry start to lose money because the accidents with bad prepared DMs working for nothing, you will see how they start to put money to generate money...I might be so naive, but here you have my opinion.

Im with you in that Im against the general concept of tipping- At least as it is in the US where its an expected thing rather than a true bonus for good service. Id rather see people paid a descent base rate and have tips only be for good service.

Anyhow,

What I expect from a DM? Site briefings, Safety reminders (asking if people have buddies, asking if people did their checks) Keeping a general eye on the group to see if there are problems. Logging people in/out. Buddy with the odd diver if there is one.

Basically general safety stuff. No specific handholding. They cant be there for everything underwater and shouldnt have to be assembling your gear for you.

 

[Azza]

We didn't tip in Australia because the shop told us not to, and so did the DMs.

In Australia and New Zealand tipping is actively discouraged as we have never been tippers, and don't want ever want tipping to become customery in our country(ies).

Part time DM's dont generally get paid here, and if they do it's very little, so if they want to work for free then so be it.

Full Time DM's do get paid as the law in our respective countries demands this. If DM's are working for free then they are taking jobs from other professionals and tipping only encourages this. This does need to stop.

The GBR is a classic case of this. Travellers from far and wide flock to Queensland to work for free on the reef so they can get cheap/free diving in the reef and in doing so take away jobs from local professionals.

 

[SadiesMom]

While in theory I would agree with those of you who disagree with the idea of DMs making a living either wholely or substantially from tipping, that is the reality in the US, Mexico and most of the Caribbean. That *is* the culture in those places and refusing to tip the DM simply because *you* don't agree with the "tipping culture" is not only rude but profoundly unfair, as it places a HUGE disadvantage on the DM, who is stuck in the middle of your "social protest" against the culture of tipping.

The DM who works for tips is the one who has rent to pay and mouths to feed. If you don't tip him/her in a culture where s/he is *expected* to live off his/her tips, you put that DM in a dire situation. You're not hurting the dive operation or the instructor - you're directly hurting the DM who led you on your great holiday dive trip. How's that for a slap in the face? The very DM who made it so you didn't have to touch your gear for your whole vacation, gave you great dive briefings, found you the critter you wanted to see your whole life and made darned sure you made it safely out of every dive didn't have enough money to pay the rent because YOU were making a "social statement" about the appropriateness of a "tipping culture." Nice. "Thanks for the great dive, Mr./Ms. DM. Suck it up and live under the dock and eat seaweed, 'cause *I'M* not giving you jack. No offense intended on that starving to death and being homeless thing...it's just my way of making a 'social protest' against the tipping culture" :sigh:

If you want to change the culture, then perhaps we should do what Australia and New Zealand have done and make it mandatory that a LIVING WAGE be paid to EVERYONE (yup, that means increasing the minimum wage, boys and girls - and making it apply to everyone! Even waiters, waitresses and all traditional service-related industries - including DMs). Frankly, I don't see that happening. Small business owners (dive shops included) would scream bloody murder that they'd be put out of business.....you hear the same thing every time an increase to the minimum wage is suggested.

Honestly, I don't ever see this happening. The best idea is to just follow the tipping customs of where you travel and stop trying to *change* them because you do or do not agree with them. If I go to Oz or NZ I won't tip, since it's discouraged. Nor will I tip in Japan, as it's not customary there. However, I WILL NOT EVER penalize a service industry person in a culture that DOES tip simply because *I* don't "like" the idea of tipping. (My tip, however, varies as to the level of service I receive)

 

[midwayman]

Ummm maybe I should make it clear that I still DO tip people because I realize that they ARENT making a living wage. Its just a more general frustration not aimed at DMs in particular.

 

[Jamdiver]

While in theory I would agree with those of you who disagree with the idea of DMs making a living either wholely or substantially from tipping, that is the reality in the US, Mexico and most of the Caribbean. That *is* the culture in those places and refusing to tip the DM simply because *you* don't agree with the "tipping culture" is not only rude but profoundly unfair, as it places a HUGE disadvantage on the DM, who is stuck in the middle of your "social protest" against the culture of tipping.

The DM who works for tips is the one who has rent to pay and mouths to feed. If you don't tip him/her in a culture where s/he is *expected* to live off his/her tips, you put that DM in a dire situation. You're not hurting the dive operation or the instructor - you're directly hurting the DM who led you on your great holiday dive trip. How's that for a slap in the face? The very DM who made it so you didn't have to touch your gear for your whole vacation, gave you great dive briefings, found you the critter you wanted to see your whole life and made darned sure you made it safely out of every dive didn't have enough money to pay the rent because YOU were making a "social statement" about the appropriateness of a "tipping culture." Nice. Thanks for the great dive, Mr./Ms. DM. Suck it up and live under a palm tree and eat seaweed, 'cause *I'M* not giving you jack. :sigh:

If you want to change the culture, then perhaps we should do what Australia and New Zealand have done and make it mandatory that a LIVING WAGE be paid to EVERYONE (yup, that means increasing the minimum wage, boys and girls - and making it apply to everyone! Even waiters, waitresses and all traditional service-related industries - including DMs). Frankly, I don't see that happening. Small business owners (dive shops included) would scream bloody murder that they'd be put out of business.....you hear the same thing every time an increase to the minimum wage is suggested.

Honestly, I don't ever see this happening. The best idea is to just follow the tipping customs of where you travel and stop trying to *change* them because you do or do not agree with them. If I go to Oz or NZ I won't tip, since it's discouraged. Nor will I tip in Japan, as it's not customary there. However, I WILL NOT EVER penalize a service industry person in a culture that DOES tip simply because *I* don't "like" the idea of tipping. (My tip, however, varies as to the level of service I receive)

I might add that the only reason why there's a tipping "culture" in most of the Caribbean, is because of the interaction of people who work in the tourism/hospitality industry with North American visitors.

These very same workers when working for locals don't "expect" a tip as one will not be given. And they're not even upset about it either.

What I'm just trying to say is that people working at the hotels have become spoiled by tourists who tip and now expect it from them.
Tipping isn't really done here unless it's for a nice meal at a restaurant.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I might add that the only reason why there's a tipping "culture" in most of the Caribbean, is because of the interaction of people who work in the tourism/hospitality industry with North American visitors.

These very same workers when working for locals don't "expect" a tip as one will not be given. And they're not even upset about it either.

What I'm just trying to say is that people working at the hotels have become spoiled by tourists who tip and now expect it from them.
Tipping isn't really done here unless it's for a nice meal at a restaurant.

I discovered that when I was in Bali. We had a nice meal in a restaurant in Tulamben, so I left a tip ... and the waiter came running out of the restaurant to tell me I had left money on the table. I said, "that's for you." He said, "why?"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)