Divemasters, is it really our job ?

[markfm]

No disagreement with what you choose to do, just that I definitely could see a professional saying "no, not on my dive" in such a case.

If something bad did happen, and the DM said "well, I expected him to...", he would likely not have a fun time.

My backup reg and gas do get used -- practice The procedure for self-rescue that you described sounds pretty complex. A BC-off ascent, avoiding out-of-control while breathing by feathering a tank valve, is an interesting concept, one I hope to not have the opportunity to try -- think I'll stick with redundant gas.
(An interesting concept, though, just sounds hairy.)

Apologies if this went slightly off-topic.

 

[getyasum]

Hey guy's, thanks for all the post. It started out because a diver was bashing a DM because he thought the DM was not doing his job and it sort of rubbed me the wrong way. I'm a guide at a training facility on the weekends and have a real job thru the week. So all this about tips is not important to me. What is important is training, find a professinal and train. I watch advance divers and instructors every weekend, set up their gear,get in their suits and hit the water. 99 out of 100 don't even check their regs on the dock to see if it will breath and when they do their gaint stride off the dock into 100 ft of water,never mind the Dm will save me. I did a tour last weekend and one of the 1st things I ask was his level of training, he replied aow, and that he had done several dives past 130 ft. and that he was cool with an overhead enviroment and how good his scr was. So I take him to 100 ft. for about 4 min. come back up to 60 ft. and proceed with the dive. At 15 min into the dive this cat is at 500 psi and I had to ask him for that, but not to worry the Dm has plenty and he will save me. Dude, what kind of training is that ? Hell, if I was to give him a working reg , in an emergency, chances are he couldn't use it. Then after the dive I quiz him on how he felt about the dive. He had no idea how deep, how long,or how much air, only that it was dark and spooky. Then come to find out these several dives past 130 ft. was 1 dive, accidental, in a overhead where he probably should not have been in the first place. Oh well , I guess thats why we get insurance, not to worry. BOTTOM LINE ,,TRAIN if your going to play in this sport, you could save your own butt.

 

[ScubaMike14]

Just curious...as a DM you should know that anything deeper than about 120 is way beyond recreational limits, especially with just AOW certification. And overhead environments? No way. You should have NEVER taken him on a dive that would involve an overhead environment, nor should you be there unless you have had proper training. Overhead environments (wreck penetration, caverns, caves) require extra gear, extra gas, and extensive training that is NOT covered in AOW or even a DM class.

Also just wondering...where do you work that has a dock with a 100ft drop off? Sounds cool.

 

[Diesel298]

Diesel, have I offended you? I am sharing opinions and I am sure I am not a jerk!!

In my last trip to Coz, I dove a fully week with the same dive shop. I dove 10 times and I did´t tip. The guys gave me the same service from the very beginning till the end. I guess it is because they expect a tip from the north americans, but they do not expect the same from a Brazilian like me...and I assure you that Mexicans just love Brazilians.

Finally and again, please don't serve me for free. Tell me that your services will cost me X, and I will pay (if I could) or I will look for something cheaper...because that we are in a democracy....to choose.

i wasnt calling you a jerl by no means... i have just delt with people that are, and this thread kinda hit on that nerve. (again not directed at you)

its just in some cases. tipping is standard...this is one of them..
you and i dont make that decision...
its just the way it is.

 

[tangfish]

A great DM can make all the difference in having a terrific dive. Conversely, a terrible DM can endanger divers and/or make for a very unpleasant experience. Your tips, if you ask me, are for doing what you can to make the experience the former example.

 

[SadiesMom]

A great DM can make all the difference in having a terrific dive. Conversely, a terrible DM can endanger divers and/or make for a very unpleasant experience. Your tips, if you ask me, are for doing what you can to make the experience the former example.

An excellent, concise summation of the whole thread

 

[nyprrthd]

I still consider myself a newbie, so I'll chime in from my perspective.

I always do my best to tip appropriately, whatever the circumstances. I felt uncomfortable on my first dive boat trip after I was certified, because I didn't know the tipping customs in the diving world. Worse (or just as bad as) not tipping can be trying to tip people who consider themselves "professionals," and end up insulting someone. [I've never tipped my doctor, but it could be a good idea; might end the endless waiting while half naked routine.] So, I asked a couple of other divers on the boat about the customary practices. I feel bad that I didn't tip any of the instructors when I went through my certification process, purely out of ignorance.

Maybe the different dive certification agencies (PADI, SSI, etc) should add a chapter on diving courtesy that would include how to act on a boat, and who/how much to tip. It would prevent DM's from being short-changed (or at least minimize it), and cause less confusion/annoyance on dive boats when well-intentioned newbies screw up. Not everyone is as nutty as I am about learning how to act in different situations, so they blindly piss off the more experienced divers. Not to mention the potentially dangerous actions that endanger themselves and everyone else.

I usually tip $50 per tank. Anyone want to take me diving? Just kidding

 

[Darnold9999]

Wow, this thread is all over the place.

Breathing from a free flowing reg. Someone said it was part of OW training. Not mine, but this was a long time ago (1978) so someone please refresh me - how do you breath from a free flowing reg? I would have assumed that you just breath normally from it and get to the surface ASAP. I assume that any over pressure from the freeflow would exhaust normally, but never really thought about it???

Tipping, wish service people wre paid a living wage then I could tip for good service instead of feeling guilty that someone is relying on tips just to live. But this is the real world. So I tip pretty much the going rate (asking around) under for poor service, over for excellent.

DM job. Hope it wasn't me that was slagging a DM, but I did see - on one recent dive - a DM do an excellent job and another not so good. The not so good DM left a new diver to ascend up the anchor line while he retrieved the other divers from the group. The ascending diver was very low on air and in fact ran out. There were other divers around, but as I understood it later nobody was specifically partnered with her.

She ran out of air and was trying to find some from the other divers close by. The DM that, to me, did the excellent job recognized that a diver about 10 yards away, not in his group, was OOA and managed to calm a very panicked diver down and put her through a safety stop on his air. Impressed the hell out of me - she was at the very edge of losing it. He was my buddy and we were looking at an Octopus when he shot away like a scalded cat. I turned to watch the whole thing unfold in front of me.

Was it the DM's job to shepard the low on air diver to the surface. I thought so at the time, but after reading all of this perhaps not. The diver that ran OOA should not have let herself get anywhere near that point, and should have found another source of air long before the tank ran dry. If you are at 60 feet and the SPG reads 100psi and falling perhaps it is time to find more air, not just hang on the line hoping someone will rescue you.

By and large I expect that if I am diving with a DM I am really looking for that person to be a guide for the dive. Perhaps an initial dive brief re what we are going to see and what is the dive plan. If I am solo, which is all the time as my SO does not dive and there is no other singe diver then they fill the role of buddy on that dive. If in a group situation I just follow along knowing that their role is to deal with the group first. If it is just the two of us then I want to dive as a buddy team.