Divemaster Training

[TMHeimer]

Our candidates are made to react to situations constantly through the course and mostly without warning, as for the fitness training we've all come across DM's that can barely carry a tank or even tell you what a bloody first stage is we're intending on this being a consistent learning experience even after they've finished the camp.

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Though my experience is limited, I haven't yet met such DMs. Too much work following this thread without punctuation.

 

[hroark2112]

OK, here's the question for you Dive Time...

After someone has graduated from your boot camp, would you feel 100% confident that they are qualified to lead your spouse on a dive, with no other dive pro on the dive?

If they come out of your course not prepared and competent to lead your wife, mother and daughter on a dive, don't turn them loose on anyone else's wife, mother and daughter.

I hope that clarifies some of the issues we seem to be having.

 

[unterwasser]

I would say that they would be competent to dive with other certified divers, yes. However, the emphasis on the course is to build a foundation on which the boot camp candidates can build. The dive centre with which they would be working with should also bear this in mind and not make them guide novice dvers on their own until they have built up sufficient experience and have proved they are capable.
It is how I work with all my new staff and especially new DMs.

 

[Dive Time]

Hi Hroark2112,

Absolute honesty yes I would infact, my nephew is coming here later this year to dive he is 11 and never done a dive before but once he has passed his open water I would be more than happy to let a Boot Camp candidate lead a dive.

Now I could just be saying this yes but I feel very, very confident in what we're all trying to achieve here. As I said I have personally had the displeasure of working with horrendous interns as have you and I would not trust someone that has done that type of program to lead a dive. I think as stated previously the key in all of this is education.

That's what we're drilling in to our candidates not just "hey your a DM well done handshake now go" we want serious quality from these guy's/gal's. If we don't get it the guess what we will not pass you simple.

Thanks for your input it's nice to have some well structured questions.

And I was very picky about who was allowed to teach my Girlfriend in the first place as well

 

[bigduke12]

Hmm. I am not a qualified dive master, and have advanced open water and EFR. I have about 180 dives in varying conditions. This is something you can't simulate in such a short course. I'll wager my skill set is better than those of your best student

 

[Octopusprime]

As a current DM candidate There is NO way I would have been ready from OW to DM in 4 weeks. I at about 100 dives and just starting DM. Part of the need is time, the ability to have an experience then read about it search online talk to other divers etc.

In addition to the agencies minimum requirements I took it upon myself to make a dive types and conditions check list that I felt I would need to have experienced and "comfortable in" before I felt like I could be a good pro. Including Boat dives in surf, COLD water dry suit dives (40 deg water 25 min dives) tropical dives with no exposure protection (would love to do more of this) Drift dives, ability to hold a safety stop with no line or reference, Dive in current and surge, No Vis, and much more.

If you had a diver that had completed all of the DM reqs (AOW, Rescue, CPR and 50 dives ) a 4 week 75 dive package would be OK but not to go from OW to DM. You can not start DM until you have 40-50 dives depending on agency so assuming 40 dive min you are only getting about 20 dives for your DM. If there is 20 DM dives and you need to experience and OW class (4 OW) , and AOW (5 OW) course and Discover Scuba (1 OW) Class that is 10 dives so you only get to experience 2 classes with students?

If you learned to dive in some tropical location and all of your diving has been there MAYBE you could be a good DM at that location since your dive site knowledge will be great BUT if you do not experience different situations you will not be ready to be a DM in any other location. But really there is 2 DM activities. Lead certified divers and assist with teaching. You just can not see enough students to be able to anticipate a diver panicking or see a divers respirations and be aware enough to know they are going to be the first out of air.

I am not a fan of number of dives as a measuring stick because someone can do 5 20 min dives in day all in the same place. and just because someone has 50 tropical dives does not mean they worked on skills. If they have dove in different locations and conditions and have good skills maybe this 4 week 72 dive course could make a good DM. Great way to tell how good their skills are dive with them and knock their reg out (in shallow water)

 

[Rossia pacifica]

So in what situations are people's lives dependent on the dive master? When DMs "leads" a dive, what magically happens that makes the situation so much more dangerous that the DM needs hundreds of dives, in horrible conditions to insure the survival of his/her charges vs divers just renting tanks and going diving?


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[sheeper]

Let me be a little different. I think this sounds great. The program is likely to appeal to a wide range of person. It looks like some great skills development will take place as well as physical conditioning. Both good things! And good for the industry. Dive operations need to make money and get people "hooked" on diving. It sounds like this boot camp will do so! THAT is a good thing.

But that does not mean the graduate of the program will be a competent divemaster. Sure, if the person works hard and really does well they may come out with some good skills BUT that does not take the place of experience. Would I want that person to lead a group of divers someplace else like the Florida Keys? No. But can that new DM haul stuff, assist an experienced DM and GET actual experience? YES?
the program sounds like a good starting point for someone who wants to live the scuba dream lifestyle.

At 74 dives, I was still learning so much. I did not think about DM until the 300 mark and diving with some really experienced DMs and instructors. Instructor came in around 1,000 dives. DM and instructor kicked my ass BUT make me a much, much better diver. BUT a person who wants the scuba dream has to start somewhere!

So, I like the idea but recognize limitations.

 

[bigduke12]

So in what situations are people's lives dependent on the dive master? When DMs "leads" a dive, what magically happens that makes the situation so much more dangerous that the DM needs hundreds of dives, in horrible conditions to insure the survival of his/her charges vs divers just renting tanks and going diving?


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I think the issue is a bit more complicated than this. I know from experience I once had with a divemaster who did a similar type of course in Malaysia.
As no one in our group knew the dive site, we obviously needed to rely on the divemaster as a guide. Unfortunately, he did not know the dive sites very well. There were also two relatively inexperienced divers, who I had to basically keep an eye on. Remember, I paid money for these dives.
A divemaster, should have enough dives in an area, to be able to easily guide people around. This comes with experience of that area. If there are multiple dive sites, this required a lot of dives.

Another experience was with an instructor, who went a similar route. From an open water diver with twelve diver to master scuba instructor through a similar program. He is a friend of mine. He was with three students and two panicked. He had to take one to shore, and left the other with me. I had to basically carry her over rocks to get to shore.

A highly experienced diver, would have probably noticed the potential problem at an earlier stage, or possibly have taken them to another dive site. I personally know another site a few km away, that is in a sheltered bay, the max depth is ten meters, there are no entries or exits over an expanse of rocks.

Make no mistake. Experience counts. There was an earlier post where someone mentioned he has no problem with these type of courses, if people take them for what they are, and once finished, they realise they are not highly experienced and work on skills before they are in a situation where they are responsible for others.

However, there are people out there who do these courses, think they know everything, and are bulletproof. This is where the problem starts.

This is just my opinion. I am not looking to get into a debate. I have done close to two hundred dives, and I accept the fact that I am still relatively inexperienced.[emoji13]

 

[TMHeimer]

bigduke12, Yes, I agree with all you say. I'm entering my 4th year DMing OW courses this year and have yet to come upon any real emergency. To be honest, this does concern me. I only do 3-4 courses a year. I do keep up with my skills and actually re-read the DM book now and then. Experience certainly does count, but until something really bad happens you have no idea how you will really respond. I intend to DM probably just this year and next and may never face a panicked diver situation--knock wood. Then there will (hopefully) be all that diving after that where anything can happen to myself or a possible buddy.