Divemaster or just Dive!!!

[MauiScubaSteve]

Perhaps in a warm climate where diving is big business there are even enough OW/Adv. classes for a DMC to intern in 2 weeks to get enough experience. But I doubt one could do that PLUS the academics in that timeline.

PADI IDC INSTRUCTOR DEVLOPMENT COURSE- IDC Calendar

Divemaster April 7-13

Divemaster May 12-18

Divemaster September 7-14

Divemaster November 3-9

Scuba Instructor Training School PADI, teach Scuba PADI Scuba Instructor training, PADI Scuba Instructor Training School, Florida Scuba Instructor School

Divemaster / EANX Diver Dec 29 - Jan 4

Divemaster / EANX Diver Feb 24 - Mar 2

Divemaster / EANX Diver Mar 24-30

Divemaster / EANX Diver May 19-25

Divemaster / EANX Diver Jul 7-13

Divemaster / EANX Diver Aug 25-31

Divemaster / EANX Diver Sep 22-28

Divemaster / EANX Diver Nov 3-9

Divemaster / EANX Diver Dec 1-7

PADI IDC Center Florida Keys. Scuba Dive Instructor training at Rainbow Reef Professional Scuba Instructor Development and Career Center;scuba diving:diving, scuba, Key Largo, PADI, IDC, dive professional

KeysIDC is harder to copy/paste but their DM courses are;

1/3 - 1/12
2/3 - 2/9
3/11 - 3/16
4/1 - 4/6
5/5 - 5/11
6/10 - 6/15
7/1 - 7/6

IDC Schedule

Horizon Divers does DM for the 7 days prior to each Dive Theory Prep;

Oct. 7-13
Nov. 25 - Dec. 1
Jan. 6-12
Feb. 3-9
March 10-16
March 31 - April 6
May 5-11
June 9-15
June 30 - July 6
Aug. 10-17
Sept. 15-21
Nov. 24-30

Florida Keys Dive Center - Key Largo 2010 Scuba Diving Course Schedule

The Florida Keys Dive Center web site only shows the 2010 schedule, DM dates below;

1/7 - 12
2/4 - 9
3/12 - 17
4/9 - 14
5/7 - 12
6/11 - 16
7/9 - 14
8/19 - 24
10/10 - 13
11/28 - 12/1

Wow! Those last 2 are just 4 days

The above sites were due to my yahoo search of "Florida IDC" on the first search page. Below is the additional first page entry for "Florida Padi Pro training."

Pro Dive - 2009 Course Schedule

Again, just the '10 schedule, DM dates;

1/4 - 15
2/15 - 26
4/5 - 16
5/24 - 6/4
7/5 - 16
8/16 - 27
9/13 - 24
11/8 - 19

Now additional first page search entries for "Florida Keys IDC"

2011 PADI Instructor Course Dates Key Largo Florida

1/5 - 11
2/2 - 8
3/9 - 15
3/30 - 4/5
5/4 - 10
6/8 - 14
6/29 - 7/5
8/10 - 16
9/14 - 20
11/23 - 29

So just from 7 training centers in Florida (there are more just in Florida) there looks to be nearly 50 less than 2 week DM courses scheduled annually, and Keys IDC does not show Aug - Dec.

But I doubt one could do that PLUS the academics in that timeline.

You may doubt it could be done, but of my 9 person, 6 day DM class mates, only the Ivy league, pudgy blue blood with a Masters Degree failed.

 

[TMHeimer]

Well, point taken again. It's hard to believe those 4 Day ones, but those are the stats. The discussion here seems to be if those 1 or 2 week courses are the best way to go -- a topic that has come up ocassionally on SB. My general impression over time is that more people say it's better to spread the course out (and pretty much everyone on this thread). Maybe you're right in that it can be done effectively in such a short time (particularly, as you pointed out, considering the OP's profile). I guess I should say that my own preference would be to not do it in a week or two unless for some reason I absolutely had to. For ME, it would be cramming.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The discussion here seems to be if those 1 or 2 week courses are the best way to go -- a topic that has come up ocassionally on SB. My general impression over time is that more people say it's better to spread the course out (and pretty much everyone on this thread). Maybe you're right in that it can be done effectively in such a short time (particularly, as you pointed out, considering the OP's profile).

I personally know of dozens of SB members who have taken DM at Instructor Factories in popular warm water locations; probably way more here than that. I get PM's from more every time one of these threads comes up. I no longer care what a few opinionated internet sages type on SB; I have only met a handful of divers who have ever even heard of ScubaBoard, out of the thousands of divers I meet every year.

This subject is a lot like vest BC's. The vast majority of DM's certified annually are those whose course took less than 2 weeks. Even among SB members it would be hard for me to believe that the percentages are much different from the worldwide dive public. But since there are a few loud SB members that poo poo Instructor Factories (and vest BC's) the vast majority stays mostly silent.

 

[TMHeimer]

I personally know of dozens of SB members who have taken DM at Instructor Factories in popular warm water locations; probably way more here than that. I get PM's from more every time one of these threads comes up. I no longer care what a few opinionated internet sages type on SB; I have only met a handful of divers who have ever even heard of ScubaBoard, out of the thousands of divers I meet every year.

This subject is a lot like vest BC's. The vast majority of DM's certified annually are those whose course took less than 2 weeks. Even among SB members it would be hard for me to believe that the percentages are much different from the worldwide dive public. But since there are a few loud SB members that poo poo Instructor Factories (and vest BC's) the vast majority stays mostly silent.

I'll take your word on all of that--you're miles up the food chain from me. I still personally wouldn't want to do it in 2 weeks. Maybe those vast majority of SB members that agree the 2 week plan is just as good should not stay silent? If more of them spoke up folks like me may have a different perspective?

 

[DevonDiver]

I personally know of dozens of SB members who have taken DM at Instructor Factories in popular warm water locations; probably way more here than that. I get PM's from more every time one of these threads comes up. I no longer care what a few opinionated internet sages type on SB;

Was anyone criticising instructor factories?

The super-short DM courses seem to be a peculiarity of the U.S. market. We have some very high-turnover instructor factories here in Asia. I've worked at a few...and trained a few DMs in my time. They don't push 2 week DM courses though. 2-4 months is the norm. Those are full-time courses, 6 days a week.

In the UK (where I did my DM), the courses are normally weekend/part-time. Consequently, they typically last much longer. Mine took 18 months, weekends only, allowing for my work schedule as a military officer. The number of dives and hours of study equated to the 2-4 month full time courses in Asia.

Perhaps it is best to compare DM courses on the basis of content, rather than time. Diving content give a good indication of the relative experienced gained:

Full-Time DM Course (3-4 mth), Thailand: 100 - 250 dives.
Part-Time DM Course (6-18 mth), UK: 100-250 dives.
Short Course (2 wk): ?? max 50 dives ??

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Was anyone criticising instructor factories?

Very interesting question coming from you

Since "Instructor Factories" are the only training locations I know of that do a DM "short course" what can we infer from the following quotes, just from this thread?

8 Days? That would be a waste of an opportunity to benefit from a really in-depth and developmental course. Regardless of your starting skills, you couldn't hope to reach a high standard of DM capability in 8 days.

Go and enjoy the diving. What other courses are available?

You can do a lot of worthwhile diving and/or training in 8 days... but not Divemaster.

When you look at the full criteria for the DM course (there's a lot of stuff to cover) and divide that by 8 days...or even 2 weeks... then it is easy to identify that the timescale would allow nothing more than a very superficial covering of those skills.

Basically, it would just be a case of ticking a checklist, as long as the diver could provide mediocre evidence of performing the skills. There'd be no time for remedial improvement or ability (by either the instructor or the DM student) to repeat skills and achieve excellence.

The chance that a DM candidate would achieve excellence in every aspect of the DM course, on their first attempt, is highly unlikely.

If the course is run to the minimum allowable standards, by an instructor who isn't concerned by developing his student, and viewed as an assessment (with some remedial work) - rather than a high-quality development programme... then 2 weeks is just fine and dandy.

That's why so many people have advised the OP to avoid the 'short-course' options.

There is too much reliance on the instructor/centre concerned upholding sufficient quality in terms of course pre-requisites/assessments, tuition and defining 'mastery' appropriate to that level of certification. When instructors/dive centers have that responsibility, some of them, will err on the side of the $$$, not on the quality.

The 2 week DM course is very indicative of the $$$ focus, not the quality focus.

Even full time... the course can't be covered in quality, depth and breadth in 2 weeks. We had full-time DM trainees in Thailand. Most took 2-3 months to complete the DM course to a sufficient standard (sufficient for employment in the industry, not PADI standards of 'mastery').

 

[udtfire]

ff1 is correct take his advice and dive

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Now, let us look again at that last quote;

Even full time... the course can't be covered in quality, depth and breadth in 2 weeks. We had full-time DM trainees in Thailand. Most took 2-3 months to complete the DM course to a sufficient standard (sufficient for employment in the industry, not PADI standards of 'mastery').

If we define "full time" as just 40 hours per week (8 hours per day 5 days per week), that would be ~8.6 weeks - 13 weeks (344-520 hours).

Now, unless the student lives in Thailand they must pay transportation costs to and fro the training center, unless they live within commuting distance they must pay for short term housing and unless they find a night job they must take 2-3 months off from earning an income.

Now, as a DM trained to a "sufficient standard sufficient for employment" after all that time, sacrifice and expense, what is their earning potential "in the industry?"

From what I have seen as the earning potential of a certified DM, 2 weeks away from home and job is really more time, sacrifice and expense than the DM cert is worth.

 

[TMHeimer]

Once again, I pretty much agree with you completely. Particularly the part about transportation to & from the shop! I'd figure that 2 weeks away from one's job (let alone 2 months or more) is difficult enough for many many people. That being said, I think the "arguement" is about which way is better, not which is more practical. As a teacher for 19 years I feel that spreading out one's learning to absorb each part of it better is the best way to go (if you can do this)-- as opposed to all the cramming I did in H.S. to get 90s on all those tests. All band teachers I've met say that a beginner who practises his trumpet 15 minutes every day for a year becomes a better player after that time than one who practises the same total minutes over 2 months. I think that pretty much applies to just about everything we try to learn. I took the OW course over 3 weeks of night sessions. When I DMCd the "weeknd special" I could see the difference--a lot for them to absorb all at once in 2 days. As you point out, the weekend version is probably most practical for a lot of folks. Given the choice, it's not the way for me.

 

[DevonDiver]

From what I have seen as the earning potential of a certified DM, 2 weeks away from home and job is really more time, sacrifice and expense than the DM cert is worth.

In terms of 'return of investment', Iagree with you.

But then again, people who live their lives on the basis of 'return of investment' tend to end up in an office, hating the world, rather than barefoot on a beach, smiling and in love with the seas....