DiveMaster/LDS conflict

[AbyssalPlains]

You made the right decision IMHO. I have been facing the exact same issue (except it's slightly different as I don't dive BP/w). Recently my LDS told me I had to get rid of my BC, which I bought from them only a year ago, because they won't sell it anymore. They encouraged me to buy the new Scubapro line instead, which I will not do as these BC's are unsafe (no quick-release weight pockets). So, after long deliberation and an accumulation of issues similar to this one, I arrived at the same conclusion as stated so nicely and concisely by a fellow SB member:

Some DMs and instructors are ... only interested in selling gear and churning out mediocre divers. Quit doing your DM as soon as possible and go diving. (That took many years of tutelage under Mike Ferrara to boil that down to that short of a statement

).

 

[AbyssalPlains]

My shop didn't even want *me* using a longhose config and I was a student! They said it would confuse the other students.

This is beyond ridiculous. What I hate most about this attitude is the incredible arrogance on the part of the shops/instructors/agencies who think they get to decide what "confuses" students and what doesn't. What the *bleep* makes them think they can speak for grown-up people who want to learn diving????

From personal observation, I have seen what confuses students more than anything: Nebulous and inaccurate teaching that results when instructors who lack a thorough understanding of certain things confuse concepts like pressure, volume and amount (just as an example).

 

[jlgrimes]

This is beyond ridiculous. What I hate most about this attitude is the incredible arrogance on the part of the shops/instructors/agencies who think they get to decide what "confuses" students and what doesn't. What the *bleep* makes them think they can speak for grown-up people who want to learn diving????

From personal observation, I have seen what confuses students more than anything: Nebulous and inaccurate teaching that results when instructors who lack a thorough understanding of certain things confuse concepts like pressure, volume and amount (just as an example).

Wouldn't you want to cut out as many potentially confusing topics as possible (as long as it's not required of course), because ignorant instructors are confusing enough already?

It's also possible that the instructor would be confused on how to teach the use of a long hose. As much as we would like it to be, it's still not common practice. If you already know you are going to use the long hose, it would probably be better to get instruction from an organization that knows how to use/teach it in the first place.

 

[TimAZ]

This is beyond ridiculous. What I hate most about this attitude is the incredible arrogance on the part of the shops/instructors/agencies who think they get to decide what "confuses" students and what doesn't. What the *bleep* makes them think they can speak for grown-up people who want to learn diving????

From personal observation, I have seen what confuses students more than anything: Nebulous and inaccurate teaching that results when instructors who lack a thorough understanding of certain things confuse concepts like pressure, volume and amount (just as an example).

Think they get to?? Thats exactly what they get to do. It's their class to run. I don't want to get into this particular debate, but acknowledge good arguments on both sides. Really though, which is more arrogant - setting one's priorities and deciding how to run one's own classroom or making a blanket criticisim of anyone who skins a cat in a manner other than yours? Just an observation.

BTW: they don't speak for students, they speak to and with students in the manner they (hopefully) think is best for all involved.

 

[pir8]

If you don't like what the shop you work for requires then I sugest you move on, unless you happen to own the shop? I agreed with a previous employer that I should move on because I liked to do things my way, best move I could make. Now I teach for different shops as well as independantly and still use my original shop for gear. But I tend to make more money this way. It wasn't gear configs but more proceedural questions, all within standards they just wanted to require that I only did things their way.

 

[jlgrimes]

If you don't like what the shop you work for requires then I sugest you move on, unless you happen to own the shop? I agreed with a previous employer that I should move on because I liked to do things my way, best move I could make. Now I teach for different shops as well as independantly and still use my original shop for gear. But I tend to make more money this way. It wasn't gear configs but more proceedural questions, all within standards they just wanted to require that I only did things their way.

I agree, I've been through something very similar.

 

[Scubakevdm]

I want to help out my instructor and the LDS this weekend with OW/AOW students, but my instructor has insisted I wear my jacket style BC with a 'normal' hose configuration.

He says he wants the students to see me in products they would be selling them. I own a Halcyon BP/Wing, which my LDS does not sell and I have a long/short hose configuration. They sell Dive Rite products, not Halcyon.

I have a REALLY BIG PROBLEM with this. From the dive shops perspective, I understand their point. Students observe DM's, AI's, and Instructors and it makes sense to wear stuff they sell. But more importantly, MY perspective is I love my new setup, want to dive it more, really don't want to touch my jacket BC because that does no good with me improving my new setup. I feel more comfortable in the wing, blah blah blah.

I can't argue their point, so I am just not going to help out. Part of being a DM is promoting the practices of your instructor, reinforcing them for the students, setting a good example, and I guess sales. I guess I would not make a very good DM for my LDS, because I will refuse to let anyone tell me what I should dive with for the sake of the store. It really is a shame because I think how I look and manuever in the water sets a good example for the students.

Ohh well, any comments from the gallery?

Jason

1. Remove the plate pad from your backplate.
2. Place a Dive Rite sticker in the center of the backplate.
3. Color in all of the blue H's on your webbing with a black magic marker.
4. Put duct tape over the Halcyon patches on the wing, and on each cam strap.
5. Write Dive Rite on your snorkel.

 

[jlgrimes]

Best response yet. LOL

 

[RiverRat]

Don't forget. You'll also need to go to Home Depot and buy some knee pads to help with most classes

 

[jiveturkey]

This is beyond ridiculous. What I hate most about this attitude is the incredible arrogance on the part of the shops/instructors/agencies who think they get to decide what "confuses" students and what doesn't. What the *bleep* makes them think they can speak for grown-up people who want to learn diving????

From personal observation, I have seen what confuses students more than anything: Nebulous and inaccurate teaching that results when instructors who lack a thorough understanding of certain things confuse concepts like pressure, volume and amount (just as an example).

That's not fair. The instructor's responsibility is to teach the student how to dive safely. What if the instructor wasn't familiar with the long hose? This doesn't mean he/she isn't a good instructor. It doesn't mean he/she is likely to "confuse concepts like pressure, volume and amount".