Divemaster for a fee?

[randytay]

Hankwood, can I come DM for you too?

 

[Karibelle]

--I think this weekend I'll do a musician gig for someone without pay because music is so much fun......

Part of the reason I feel strongly about this (in agreement with everything you've said in your post) is that my husband, in his "real" life, is a musician. And it's tiring, explaining to people that yes, he is fortunate in that he is a rock star and lives the glamorous life, and he shouldn't have to have that glamor be the actual payment for doing his job. He shows up on time, prepared, just as one would expect... so why do we expect to not pay him?

As he puts it, he's got the market cornered on jobs no one takes seriously.

kari

 

[Divin'Papaw]

There is unfortunately a difference between what 'should' be and reality. Should DMs be paid? Of course. They are assisting with a paid training course. Then again, should open water class cost $199? Heck no!! The industry has the whole training model all outa wack. They use it as a means to gain customers and sell gear, not as a means to cover their cost and make a little bit of money. Until that changes, shops won't be able to pay staff (instructors and divemasters) what they're worth.

I personally DM essentially for free. I've been DMing since Feb 2009 and have NEVER broken even let alone made money. Why do I keep doing it? Who the heck knows?! Probably because I like working with students and helping them become better divers. I like to be on the 'inside' for some insane reason. I might someday become an instructor and therefore want to keep my membership, knowledge and skills current. Those are the main reasons, but it still makes no sense that I actually PAY for the 'right' to be a DM rather than work for fair pay. I'm actually part of the problem! All of us who work for nothing are part of the problem.

 

[scubaskipper]

Seems like there was just something in the news about a lawsuit filed by some interns, I believe in the movie business, based on work vs. learning. In a perfect world ALL shop owners would be like Jim but DD lives in the real world. Too many people for too few positions with most willing to work for free? Polar-Diver seems to have the most reasonable situation to be expected.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Too many allowed into the pro ranks as well. DM's should be selected not looked at as source of student revenue. I have seen a number of posters and divers told during their OW checkouts that they would make great DM's. Really? Those 2 classroom and 3 pool sessions (maybe 3) and 4 20 minute dives tell you this? All they need to do is take AOW the next weekend, UW Nav the weekend after that, PPB in two weeks, then do the deep class, night diver, manatee wrangler and boat diver, and then rescue. While you are paying for that come work at the shop for free, rinse gear, shlep tanks, and wash the truck. For that you get the priviedge of paying me 400 for your DM course, giving the agency another 500 for 100 bucks worth of materials, and then you can assist with classes for the next six months for air fills, a 10% discount on gear (even though when buying your BC and regs you used to get 15%), and BTW you need to buy all new gear since we changed lines and you must be a billboard for the shop. And schmucks fall for it. I know. I did to a point.

Then I woke up.

Becoming a DM should be like getting a job. Apply, interview, assess, test, evaluate, and then you start the class. Learning you pay for. Working for me I pay you. Even as a DMC. Maybe it's gear at cost, free air or if air has to be paid for I pay for it. Lunch, Dinner, share the room. Once a DM if I require you to use a certain brand of gear I'm supplying it. Otherwise use whatever you want as long as it's safe and you can demo skills in it. Assist with classes? Student tuition provides pay for DM. Hopefully I have enough students to use you. Bring me students (friends, family. co-workers) ? You get $25 per person on top of regular pay.

Will I accept you? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on your skills, attitude, personality, ability to work with people, and if I actually need a DM. I'm not taking someone's money if I can't use them and at least give them a proper internship with real students.

 

[k ellis]

Where I live, divemaster's are in short supply, to the point where shop employees are trained for free. One is because they make almost no money and two, will divemaster for the instructor for a year or so for free. I am paying full boat for my training, that is fine by me as when I am done I will not "owe" anyone. My buddy, who is a DM is constantly being asked to DM for classes, pool and OW. I am not going into this to make money or become rich, can't do that here. I know instructors make very little off the average OW student, their extra money comes in the advanced classes. In the advanced class there is little or no need for a DM, unlike the large group a instructor might have for an average OW class. My instructor tells me that he hands all his tips to his DM's, and it should pay for their insurance for the year. Here comes the delicate part, could a DM charge for their services? I know you can do just about anything but, with gas at $3.79 a gallon and pool and OW sessions kinda taking up a whole weekend, would some kind of reimbursement be allowed? I am pursuing my DM not for the money as I have a full time job already, the reason I am paying full price. I am pursuing DM because I really love diving and want to share it with others. At the end of the day I really don't want to be in the red just to help out instructors, I know most instructors here teach for the love of it also. But I also don't want my love of the sport to become a business and over shadow the fun. Yes I will be getting free air, (I'm an semi active diver so I get free air anyhow) and discounts on gear, how much more gear do I really need? But I guess it all comes down to the joy of seeing the look on peoples faces as they take their first breath underwater. Arg I can tell this is going to be a challenge already.

Not having read most of the thread this is my honest answer. You are a free agent and really can do what ever you want. I agree with most that its an awkward position to be in and may not be the best choice to ask for fees or tips in class. But there are other things you can do to make money in the process. Sometimes a certified diver may not feel comfortible diving a new area and ask a divemaster to go along. Then this would be ok to charge a fee to go. You can tag along on a boat like you say and if its actual certified divers you are leading the dive for then tips are acceptible just dont shove it in their face as I have seen alot of dive masters do. The I am dieing without your tip approach usually only gets a few dollars if any at all from me as opposed to the ones who dont ask which I have given up to 50 dollars too.

When your in a teaching environment then its not professional to ask people who have already paid an instructor to turn around and pay more on top of that. (Kind of consider the way airlines do when they sale you a ticket then want more for your bags upon arrival.)

Long story short a divemaster is not just a training aid. They also are dive guides and assistants for hire when people need a little more help outside of training.

And as for the more advanced classes dont let that full you. Divemasters are a huge help in rescue classes as they serve as the diver in distress, they also help the instructor look for things he may miss in the standards due to having more then one student at a time in many of the classes.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

A good instructor will also let students know that tipping a DM is not prohibited and if they feel the DM added to their experience they should tip them.

 

[TMHeimer]

There is unfortunately a difference between what 'should' be and reality. Should DMs be paid? Of course. They are assisting with a paid training course. Then again, should open water class cost $199? Heck no!! The industry has the whole training model all outa wack. They use it as a means to gain customers and sell gear, not as a means to cover their cost and make a little bit of money. Until that changes, shops won't be able to pay staff (instructors and divemasters) what they're worth.

I personally DM essentially for free. I've been DMing since Feb 2009 and have NEVER broken even let alone made money. Why do I keep doing it? Who the heck knows?! Probably because I like working with students and helping them become better divers. I like to be on the 'inside' for some insane reason. I might someday become an instructor and therefore want to keep my membership, knowledge and skills current. Those are the main reasons, but it still makes no sense that I actually PAY for the 'right' to be a DM rather than work for fair pay. I'm actually part of the problem! All of us who work for nothing are part of the problem.

All excellent points. Maybe the structure of OW fees would change if Instructors and DMs would only work for a decent wage? Maybe not.

 

[TMHeimer]

Too many allowed into the pro ranks as well. DM's should be selected not looked at as source of student revenue. I have seen a number of posters and divers told during their OW checkouts that they would make great DM's. Really? Those 2 classroom and 3 pool sessions (maybe 3) and 4 20 minute dives tell you this? All they need to do is take AOW the next weekend, UW Nav the weekend after that, PPB in two weeks, then do the deep class, night diver, manatee wrangler and boat diver, and then rescue. While you are paying for that come work at the shop for free, rinse gear, shlep tanks, and wash the truck. For that you get the priviedge of paying me 400 for your DM course, giving the agency another 500 for 100 bucks worth of materials, and then you can assist with classes for the next six months for air fills, a 10% discount on gear (even though when buying your BC and regs you used to get 15%), and BTW you need to buy all new gear since we changed lines and you must be a billboard for the shop. And schmucks fall for it. I know. I did to a point.

Then I woke up.

Becoming a DM should be like getting a job. Apply, interview, assess, test, evaluate, and then you start the class. Learning you pay for. Working for me I pay you. Even as a DMC. Maybe it's gear at cost, free air or if air has to be paid for I pay for it. Lunch, Dinner, share the room. Once a DM if I require you to use a certain brand of gear I'm supplying it. Otherwise use whatever you want as long as it's safe and you can demo skills in it. Assist with classes? Student tuition provides pay for DM. Hopefully I have enough students to use you. Bring me students (friends, family. co-workers) ? You get $25 per person on top of regular pay.

Will I accept you? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on your skills, attitude, personality, ability to work with people, and if I actually need a DM. I'm not taking someone's money if I can't use them and at least give them a proper internship with real students.

I agree with all of this too. Having an Instructor or DM cert. doesn't mean you're any good at it. Only that you have gotten the required qualifications. Likewise, no university degree means you will do well if hired on somewhere. And no degree guarentees you a job. Nor does joining the Musician's Union. But if offered a job, you should be paid, as you are a professional with the qualifications.

 

[k ellis]

Just as an isert here to post but I know of several shops who run a divemaster mill for the reasons mentioned above. They want free help when it comes to teaching and know that the ones who do it for a short period of time tire from having to constantly load up their gear travel to the same old dive spot time and time again and pay out of pocket for the joy of making the shop money.

I do love to divemaster no question about it. But I spend more time going to work in the swimming pool then I do the lake. Its cost prohibitive for me to goto the lake weekly at almost 100 dollars round trip for gas, tolls and meals in transit then have to pay the park fees and get a hotel or camp out. I would do it if it were closer though.

I do love however the swimming pool because the owner insist we use either gear he sells or his rental gear (Which he allows the divemasters and instructors to use for free) and also any tanks and air we need is supplied at no cost for the pool.

With that in mind I am out $10.00 for fuel to and from the shop and nothing more so its fun in that respect.

Divemastering is what it is just like any other sport hobby and job. If you love doing it then youll have the time of your life and if you dont enjoy it well then its time to look for something diffrent.

Just my 30 seconds of thought outside the box