Divemaster course over 2 weekends?

[Alex Ouroboros]

Put Another Dime In.

Hope Candidates understand exactly what they could be responsible for during diving activities if with students and depending which line their name is on on the paperwork..

Far far far too short.

 

[TMHeimer]

So I looked up the details on what would need to be done. I'm going to summarize those items that really couldn't be done in advance:

1. Skill circuit: This is showing you've got "demonstration-quality" capability in 24 different skills. I'm not sure how you get demonstration quality without having been taught it over some time, but maybe they send out videos to watch and encourage you to practice before you show up?
2. Waterskills: This is 5 skills including timed swim, timed snorkel, timed diver tow, timed float, and equipment exchange underwater. The float alone takes 15 minutes. Swims depend on speed of diver, but should reasonably add a half hour or so of actual swimming time, excluding recovery between "events" or time necessary for logistics. (E.g., doffing/donning mask, fins, and full SCUBA gear as appropriate.)
3. Dive rescue demo. OK, maybe they just got out of a rescue class and can nail this first time out? Or is a demo done? Videos shown in advance?
4. Dive site management: This could be rolled into assisting with classes, I guess.
5. Mapping project. I'm assuming they have to do this on their own.
6. Dive briefing. Theoretically wrapped into a class?
7. Search and recovery scenario. (Basically do the S&R Adventure Dive.)
8. Deep dive. They have to do it with the instructor. I suppose this and item 7 could be rolled into assisting, sort of, with an AOW course? Seems like that'd be pushing it in terms of compliance, though.
9. Re-activate workshop: Either assist with a class, or a mock class. But this isn't something you can rush through.
10. Skin Diver workshop: Same deal. They need a real class or a real mock class.
11. DSD workshop: Same deal.
12. DSD open water dive. Same again.
13. Discover local diving: Same again.
14. Assist with full open water course (pool and open water dives). This has to be a real course.
15. Continuing education course assisting. This has to be a real course.
16. Lead a real dive kind of like you're guiding.

That seems like a really busy two weekends. The most "efficient" I could get quickly adding up is 11 OW dives, 7 CW dives (a couple of which could be added to OW, if preferred, and 1 skindiver session. I'm assuming they could do the skill circuit, water skills, and rescue demo in one horrendous CW session.

Yeah, that's about how I recall it from 15 years ago. And we didn't have the Deep and S&R thing back then (it was added shortly after). Doing all this in 2 weekends???

 

[Aquaviolator]

The Divemaster card really needs an overhaul. Sixty-dives does not make a skilled diver. No requirements to dive in an offshore current or so many dives to certain depths etc. To go from a weekend Openwater course to Divemaster in a year is not uncommon or difficult. Which translates to low pay for those incredible Divemasters I've had the privilege to train under .

 

[TMHeimer]

The Divemaster card really needs an overhaul. Sixty-dives does not make a skilled diver. No requirements to dive in an offshore current or so many dives to certain depths etc. To go from a weekend Openwater course to Divemaster in a year is not uncommon or difficult. Which translates to low pay for those incredible Divemasters I've had the privilege to train under .

I agree in general. Especially about the number of dives required to start & finish. I had 152 when I started the course and felt about ready. As far as variety of dives, depths, etc. there are a lot of places where only this or that is possible. We don't have any real offshore currents here unless you go all the way to the Bay of Fundy. What about getting your DM in like, Colorado?

 

[KenE]

I believe the problem is in the economics of the diving profession. To keep the cost of instruction and dive ops low the owner must employ low wage DMs. However, this means that DMs won't stay for long, either in or out of the diving profession. So, a regular turnover of DMs means the course must be shorter and cost less so they have DMs available for the owners. This model is geared towards serving the vacation diver, because believe it or not, that is what funds the dive industry. I don't want to discredit other divers, but the dive agencies find the most $$ in vacation divers. To change this dynamic we would have to get the agencies to make the DM course longer and cost more. This will produce fewer DMs and the shops and dive ops will need to pay more to retain the DMs. The industry will have better DMs that stay longer. However, this will also drive the costs up for most training and dive ops. I believe this is better because the training should be better and better divers the result. However, this is counterproductive for the training agencies. Higher cost means less students, less students means less revenue. Hence, why we have the issues we have today!

 

[TMHeimer]

I believe the problem is in the economics of the diving profession. To keep the cost of instruction and dive ops low the owner must employ low wage DMs. However, this means that DMs won't stay for long, either in or out of the diving profession. So, a regular turnover of DMs means the course must be shorter and cost less so they have DMs available for the owners. This model is geared towards serving the vacation diver, because believe it or not, that is what funds the dive industry. I don't want to discredit other divers, but the dive agencies find the most $$ in vacation divers. To change this dynamic we would have to get the agencies to make the DM course longer and cost more. This will produce fewer DMs and the shops and dive ops will need to pay more to retain the DMs. The industry will have better DMs that stay longer. However, this will also drive the costs up for most training and dive ops. I believe this is better because the training should be better and better divers the result. However, this is counterproductive for the training agencies. Higher cost means less students, less students means less revenue. Hence, why we have the issues we have today!

I agree with most of this. Except from what I read here most DMs are not paid at all (our shop is an exception--we made $300 per OW course, about minimum wage hour wise). Not sure about making the (PADI) DM course any harder. I found it plenty good enough for me to function well assisting on courses. I suppose some places it's less stringent? Not sure about raising the course cost--McDonalds will pay trainees while they are learning. Cost as relative to what other "occupations" do/charge would be a never ending discussion.

 

[Leatherboot69]

I’m doing my DM at the moment-started at about 60 dives and am currently on 89 in a range of conditions from cold water lakes and tropical waters to the middle of the Adriatic at night, with about half of the course to go. Three important lessons I learned were what it felt like to be out of my depth (metaphorically) on one or two difficult dives; how to rectify that training gap; and the difference between ‘everyday diving’ and ‘demonstration quality’.

A common view seems to be that dive pros should be able to be dropped into almost any conditions and to be able to lead or instruct. But this ‘global’ approach is not part of PADI standards. What PADI standards do proscribe is a specific set of skills, which seem to be adequate for the fundamental role of a DM; and the condition that divers should only dive in conditions in line with their training and experience. There’s no point being able to dive in a dry suit if you’re only ever going to dive off a beach in South East Asia, for example. And in fact my DM there was really curious about what it was like to dive in cold water in a dry suit… As he had never encountered it, and had no need of it. I can’t help wonder why if training standards are as bad as some people make them out to be why diving isn’t classed a la a highly dangerous sport?

The last thread I joined in on was extolling the virtues of Master Scuba Diver and facing a lot of incoming flak-but pursuing MSD got me interested in being a DM, and gave me a good start point (lots of specialties and lots of time with instructors)!

 

[TMHeimer]

I’m doing my DM at the moment-started at about 60 dives and am currently on 89 in a range of conditions from cold water lakes and tropical waters to the middle of the Adriatic at night, with about half of the course to go. Three important lessons I learned were what it felt like to be out of my depth (metaphorically) on one or two difficult dives; how to rectify that training gap; and the difference between ‘everyday diving’ and ‘demonstration quality’.

A common view seems to be that dive pros should be able to be dropped into almost any conditions and to be able to lead or instruct. But this ‘global’ approach is not part of PADI standards. What PADI standards do proscribe is a specific set of skills, which seem to be adequate for the fundamental role of a DM; and the condition that divers should only dive in conditions in line with their training and experience. There’s no point being able to dive in a dry suit if you’re only ever going to dive off a beach in South East Asia, for example. And in fact my DM there was really curious about what it was like to dive in cold water in a dry suit… As he had never encountered it, and had no need of it. I can’t help wonder why if training standards are as bad as some people make them out to be why diving isn’t classed a la a highly dangerous sport?

The last thread I joined in on was extolling the virtues of Master Scuba Diver and facing a lot of incoming flak-but pursuing MSD got me interested in being a DM, and gave me a good start point (lots of specialties and lots of time with instructors)!

I agree. I've heard that an instructor who has dived in many varied locales and conditions is better than one who hasn't. I don't disagree, but-- If I'm an open water student I would prefer instructors and DMs who have a thousand dives on the training site and similar conditions rather than 200 all over the world.

 

[DrPhilF]

I have a couple of thoughts here. First, I’ve taught the divemaster course in several different ways. When I was as instructor in Asia, we had two kinds of divemasters. One was locals, who were honestly focused entirely on being able to provide for their families. Often, they had thousands of dives and were the most skilled divers that I had ever seen when it came to being able to finding nudibranchs and other wildlife. The other type was the traveller that wanted the credential. They usually did a two to six week divemaster course. Much of the course was focused on improving their diving skills and providing them with new experiences. In the US, my divemaster teaching experiences are very different. Very few want to actually work as a dive professional. Instead, they want to become better divers. In the US, I often include a number of different experiences such as gas blending, O2 provider, and tec 40.

Is any one of these better than the other? I don’t think so. Each serves a different purpose, but ultimately benefits the diver. Ultimately it depends on the diver and what they are wanting from the experience.

Sometimes I think about going back to Asia and enrolling as a divemaster for 6 weeks. Just so I could dive a lot. Do you think they’d notice?

 

[TMHeimer]

I have a couple of thoughts here. First, I’ve taught the divemaster course in several different ways. When I was as instructor in Asia, we had two kinds of divemasters. One was locals, who were honestly focused entirely on being able to provide for their families. Often, they had thousands of dives and were the most skilled divers that I had ever seen when it came to being able to finding nudibranchs and other wildlife. The other type was the traveller that wanted the credential. They usually did a two to six week divemaster course. Much of the course was focused on improving their diving skills and providing them with new experiences. In the US, my divemaster teaching experiences are very different. Very few want to actually work as a dive professional. Instead, they want to become better divers. In the US, I often include a number of different experiences such as gas blending, O2 provider, and tec 40.

Is any one of these better than the other? I don’t think so. Each serves a different purpose, but ultimately benefits the diver. Ultimately it depends on the diver and what they are wanting from the experience.

Sometimes I think about going back to Asia and enrolling as a divemaster for 6 weeks. Just so I could dive a lot. Do you think they’d notice?

Makes sense to me. I was an exception. I wanted to improve my diving, get my foot back a bit into education (retired teacher) assisting on courses....AND.... get paid. It's also a kind of expensive course if you don't want to DM for pay. You can improve your diving in other ways a lot cheaper.