Divemaster Candidate Teaching Advanced Dive... Acceptable and Normal?

[Mark Duddridge]

I would definitely drop the rescue course if at all possible. You were disappointed in the AOW, so you will probably be disappointed in the Rescue class. Where do you live? Maybe you could meet up with someone on the board to go over some buoyancy stuff with a more experienced diver on the board? If you're between STL and Chicago, I would be willing to meet with you...

Tom

I appreciate the offer! Unfortunately... I live/dive in Manitoba, Canada! Bit of a long drive!

I'm actually feeling fairly good about my buoyancy control right now. I did have an issue with resting buoyancy at surface, but armed with tons of advice from the good folks on this great forum I was able to correct it over the weekend. The rest of my buoyancy control feels pretty good right now (of course I'll keep working on it!). The reason I wanted to take the Peak Perforamnce Buoyancy was more because it was the best of the very few remaining specialties I could choose from for my AOW that could actually be taken given the limitations of the lake we train in.

 

[wedivebc]

A DM candidate does not meet the requirements of a certified assistant. This is in violation of training standards even if an instructor is standing on shore directing you (which I doubt he is)

 

[Mark Duddridge]

A DM candidate does not meet the requirements of a certified assistant. This is in violation of training standards even if an instructor is standing on shore directing you (which I doubt he is)

Given this comment, and after reading my description of how the course unfolded, have I in your opinion even successfully completed the requirements for the PADI AOW?

 

[wedivebc]

Given this comment, and after reading my description of how the course unfolded, have I in your opinion even successfully completed the requirements for the PADI AOW?

Sorry to say but no. You should insist on proper instruction or a refund.
It irks me to see dive shop owners cutting corners with training

 

[Mark Duddridge]

Sorry to say but no. You should insist on proper instruction or a refund.
It irks me to see dive shop owners cutting corners with training

Is there anywhere online where I can view the PADI training standards for AOW? If I'm going to take the position with the dive shop owner that the training I received did not meet PADI standards, I would like to have something to back that position up.

In other words, I need to know what just failed to meet my personal expectations and what actually failed to meet PADI's expectations.

 

[scubajcf]

Is there anywhere online where I can view the PADI training standards for AOW? If I'm going to take the position with the dive shop owner that the training I received did not meet PADI standards, I would like to have something to back that position up.

In other words, I need to know what just failed to meet my personal expectations and what actually failed to meet PADI's expectations.

PADI Training Standards are published in the PADI Instructor Manual. That manual is for sale at most PADI member dive shops. To post them on the Internet would be a violation of the PADI Member Agreement (which all Divemasters and Instructors agree too) and a copyright infringement.

Additionally, while most of the postings are accurate on Scubaboard regarding training standards, I have certainly seen some incorrect assumptions. I guess what I am saying is don't believe 100% of everything you read.

The Advanced Course you took is typical of many shops attempts at certifying advanced divers. Most agencies standards are similar in this regard. Additionally, the practice your isntructor did (having several classes going on as well) is called multi level training. While it has its benefits, it is mired in disadvantages.

Many folks on this board have seen deficiencies in the Advanced curriculum and have worked steadfastly to improve on those standards. I myself have reworked much of my Advanced Lesson Plan to fill those gaps. My Advanced Course has 6 class sessions and 15 OW Dives. Every dive has a buoyancy and navigation component to them. Not all agencies allow instructors this flexibility. At the end of the day, it is about being qualified, not certified.

However, regardless of the agency: Find an instructor who takes your training as serious as it sound you do and you will be much more fulfilled in your dive path.

Never stop learning and most importantly practice everything you have learned. Unpracticed skills rust when they are not used.

Good luck and safe diving!

JcF

 

[caseybird]

Was not thrilled with how the AOW course went this weekend...

• DM candidate, who did most of the supervision, only had around 35 logged dives... same number I have logged.
• Instructor only joined us for 2 out of the 5 dives.
• Briefings were good, but debriefings were virtually nonexistent.
• Deep dive was only to 70 feet and didn't include the necessary timed tests.
• Instructor didn't force us to retake the night dive despite the fact that my buddy only spent 14 minutes underwater, and I showed poor buddy judgment.
• "Altitude Dive" was a joke.

I'll be the first to admit I don't have a lot of course experience so maybe my expectations were too high and the way things were handled was acceptable and normal. Still... I'd hoped for more.

Yep, you are right to be dissappointed. I would never take another course from this shop. Find a new instructor, work on skills, and don't stop learning. (Altitude diving. Please.)

 

[nereas]

Is there anywhere online where I can view the PADI training standards for AOW? If I'm going to take the position with the dive shop owner that the training I received did not meet PADI standards, I would like to have something to back that position up.

In other words, I need to know what just failed to meet my personal expectations and what actually failed to meet PADI's expectations.

PADI teaches a great rescue class, and a great DMC course. Other than that, PADI's classes are mostly just putting-another-dollar-in.

If you want a really good AOW class, you should take a look at another agency, such as SSI, or YMCA, or NAUI.

I doubt the PADI shop is going to give you a refund. Their objective was simply (1) to take you on a few more dives, so that you would be a safe basic open water diver, and (2) to collect your money, all of which they did, successfully, since you are still obviously alive.

Welcome to the world of retail scuba diving. You have just met PADI.

Now try to get to know some of the rest of the neighborhood.

 

[Blackwood]

It was enough to cause me to consider dropping the Rescue Diver course I have scheduled with the same instructor and shop next weekend. I definitely won't be doing my DM and Instructor courses with this shop.

Consider dropping?

An instructor who can go 6+ minutes without realizing a student is missing is not qualified to teach anything, least of all rescue.

 

[fisherdvm]

Was not thrilled with how the AOW course went this weekend...

"Deep" dive was only to 70 feet and did not include a timed test above water and then at depth.

Underwater Navigation was good in that I actually learned something, but my buddy and I did the dive alone without even the presence of the DM candidate. Instructor watched our bubbles from shore to make sure we did our shapes correctly.

Night dive was a disappointment as well. Visibility was only about 4-6 feet. My buddy got a cramp and went for the surface after 14 minutes. When I realized he was gone I signalled to the instructor he was gone. Instructor didn't understand what I was signaling and continued the dive for another 6 minutes before the DM candidate noticed he was missing. Instructor then signalled for us to go up. Total dive length... 20 minutes. I realize I showed bad judgment in this situation. I should have immediately gone up with my buddy. I assumed the instructor's lack of concern that he was missing was an indication my buddy had let him know he was going up. Unacceptable assumption. I was completely in the wrong.

Next day...

Instead of doing Peak Performance Buoyancy (which was what I wanted to take but would have necessitated him getting wet so he could watch us), our instructor decided to instead do a "mock altitude dive." So... that specialty consisted of him spending 5 minutes going over the effects of altitude on diving and then sending us out for a casual dive with the DM candidate.

Search and recovery was fun and a good learning experience. Instructor didn't join us for the dive, but the DM candidate did a good job of leading the dive and exercises.

Maybe I was expecting too much, but I was extremely disappointed with the course. It was enough to cause me to consider dropping the Rescue Diver course I have scheduled with the same instructor and shop next weekend. I definitely won't be doing my DM and Instructor courses with this shop.

• DM candidate, who did most of the supervision, only had around 35 logged dives... same number I have logged.
• Instructor only joined us for 2 out of the 5 dives.
• Briefings were good, but debriefings were virtually nonexistent.
• Deep dive was only to 70 feet and didn't include the necessary timed tests.
• Instructor didn't force us to retake the night dive despite the fact that my buddy only spent 14 minutes underwater, and I showed poor buddy judgment.
• "Altitude Dive" was a joke.

I'll be the first to admit I don't have a lot of course experience so maybe my expectations were too high and the way things were handled was acceptable and normal. Still... I'd hoped for more.

Ouch.... I am fine with the navigation check by watching bubbles. I am fine that he did not keep track of all the students (you're certified divers, and you SHOULD've been keeping track of your buddy). I am also OK with the fact that the night dive was only 14 minutes - it is NOT an OW certification course. Deep dive to 70 ft is not a bad thing - you'll have more air to enjoy the dive - and it is well within standard. The main thing is to accomplish the tasks required - we did a combination lock in one class, and another one doing some math skills. Some students are so anxious or have such problem clearing their ears, that by the time you get down to 90 ft, they have little air left except for a few minutes of tasks, then you have to ascend again. I think these dives are mainly "adventure dives", and they are mainly to introduce you to concepts in these "specialties".

I guess I am just a little perturbed that it was a DM candidate with 35 dives who lead you. I still don't think it is a good idea to impose that much responsibility for a DM intern.