Dive Team Accident

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I'm still new at this but someone correct me if I'm wrong...isn't 40lbs of lead a bit of overkill....especially in a LAKE..? When you are assisting by tow don't you tow holding the distressed divers 1st stage ...not his neck...? I learned how to ditch my BC in OW class.....why in the world would a distressed diver not ditch his BC if his weights don't drop..? If this BC button didn't work....he couldn't orally inflate...?? Last but not least....why in the world would a public safety diver (oxymoron coming here....) get into the water and dive with faulty/broken equipment...??

My condonlences to the officer's family......

P.S. Listening the the news report from the police chief, we all know that you don't "inflate" your BC to acend....you let air out....(or do I have it backward..?)....and all 12 BCs failed to operate?? sounds like typical law enforcement BullS**t to me...
 
I'm still new at this but someone correct me if I'm wrong...isn't 40lbs of lead a bit of overkill....especially in a LAKE..?

40 Lbs might be too much, too little or just right depending on the diver and the equipment configuration.

There's no way to know from here.

flots.
 
There are a lot of things that went wrong on that dive. Having 40lbs of weight is not out of the ordinary for a lot of Public safety divers. Does that mean they are using the right amount? NO, but don't compare yourselfs and your recreational diving to Public safety diving.

They do need more weight than you do. Rivers, high flow, staying planted for a search, are some of the reasons. Now throw a little heavier guy, breathing heavy in ZERO viz, and more weight than the normal recreational diver is typical. I do believe he was OVERLY over weighted, but I was not there for the training. I don't know what they were training for....it could have been heavy current training.

That being said, there are many other things that went wrong, and should have been identified way before these guys got in the water. It is truly a shame Officer Schock lost his life!! This type of thing is so preventable and ashame that they let their training, annual repairs, and common sense go to crap!

Talk to anydive team worth their salt, and they are training at least a couple times a month, and the gear is fully checked before and after every dive....and you don't hear about them with these types of issues. Take all that away, and unfortunately someone loses their life.

12 BCD failures means someone royally Effed up. No doubt about it. They were most likely threaded completely wrong or rigged up custom for some dumb reason.

Just to throw some more stones at Darwin...I know a PSD diver that puts all his weight in the bladder of his wing. NONE is dumpable. I have been trying for years to change this in him, and unfortunately he knows best. Not everyone can accept the fact that just because they have done it for years, doesn't make it right.

There was another death recently in PSD due to a Redundant Supply Valve....again, inadequate training was at the root of the cause. Complete waste of life for no reason!
 
Hatul:
The Zeagle rip-cord system is considered fool-proof. Until now. . . . Perhaps it's time for us Zeagle rip-cord owners to test the system.
When I saw the first post, I was concerned. I have a Ranger, have never 'tested' the weight release system (because I didn't want to have to rethread it), and was concerned that I was possibly 'at risk'. Having now read the thread comments in detail, and looked at the video of the news conference, I cannot conclude that the accident had anything to do with the particular system design. Yes, there was equipment failure. But, the root cause was human error, at multiple levels. The changes the Chief outlined seem very appropriate. And, as presented, it is not clear that the particular 'type' of equipment is being changed, only that the particular equipment the dive team uses is being replaced.
There are a lot of things that went wrong on that dive.
That is probably the most important take-away lesson for me. The outcome had less to do with equipment failure and more to do with individual and group human failure.
Dive Right In Scuba:
That being said, there are many other things that went wrong, and should have been identified way before these guys got in the water. It is truly a shame Officer Schock lost his life!! This type of thing is so preventable
A fundamental truth. Based on the available data, this was an entirely avoidable accident, and there was a considerable amount of pre-dive negligence at work.
Dive Right In Scuba:
12 BCD failures means someone royally Effed up. No doubt about it. They were most likely threaded completely wrong or rigged up custom for some dumb reason.
I suspect this is a critical consideration. If someone 'serviced' them, even with the best of intentions, and rethreaded the lines incorrectly, it is posisble for them to all fail. Otherwise, for 12/12 units to fail to release weights seems highly improbable.

In addition, the amount of weight the diver reportedly carried raises a concern, not because of potential overweighting, but because of the mechanics of the system. Diving my Ranger, in a drysuit with thick undergarments, with a single AL 80, I found I need over 30 lbs of lead, in fresh water. And, getting 32 lbs of lead into the Ranger weight pockets was so difficult - irrespective of what they supposedly will hold - that I went to a DUI Weight and Trim Harness to supplement the weight system on the Ranger. If the diver was actually carrying 40 lbs in the weight pockets, it had to be so tightly packed in that I would not be altogether surprised that it failed to release, if in fact it did. On the other hand, if (as Gene suggested in an earlier post) some of that weight was put in the outer BCD pockets, there is no 'release' available (other than ditching the rig altogether).

In general aviation accidents, the family of the deceased not infrequently ends up suing everyone even remotely connected with the accident, including the manufacturer of the aircraft, even when it is apparent that human error - most often pilot error - was the proximate cause of the accident (some low time, high testosterone VFR-only pilot flies into clouds, in mountains, at night, and dies in a 'controlled flight into terrain' event, and somehow the company that manufactured the plane 30 years before is responsible). I hope this does not happen here. But, the leadership of the dive team, the person(s) responsble for managing this training exercise, and the police department administration overall, would certainly appear to be vulnerable to legitimate charges of contributory negligence in this case.
 
If someone 'serviced' them, even with the best of intentions, and rethreaded the lines incorrectly, it is posisble for them to all fail.

If it's possible to re-thread incorrectly, then the design needs to be changed.

I just watched the rethreading video (don't actually own a Zeagle) and can see where it would be reasonably easy to rethread it to make the weights extremely difficult to ditch.

flots
 
If it's possible to re-thread incorrectly, then the design needs to be changed.

I just watched the rethreading video (don't actually own a Zeagle) and can see where it would be reasonably easy to rethread it to make the weights extremely difficult to ditch.

flots

I did own a ranger, do own 3 DUI systems with similar zip cord weight release. You can defeat any of these system if you really want to do so which is the most likely scenario for having 12 systems all "fail". Its not hard to re-thread but it does take a bit of time. If you do it wrong, it is painfully obvious (weights won't stay in). Its not brain surgery, if you are smart enough to dive (much less work in PSD) you can re-thread a zip cord.

The system was borrowed I think from skydiving. I.E. a sport where you want the chute to open at exactly when you want it, not fail to open nor open prematurely. Its a very, very good system. Its not fool proof.
 
The system was borrowed I think from skydiving.
Before manufacturing diving equipment, it's my understanding that Zeagle manufactured parachutes. Go figure.
 
I am unable to view all the photos, all the photos of the ripcord handle i saw had the handle held in place by the Velcro retainer. I wonder if all bcs allegedly failed without the handle even clearing the retainer. That would be odd indeed.

My zeagle stilleto had ditch able trim pockets, but I never used them for weight.

The officer surley panicked. Even in the event of a ripcord failure the pockets could be opened from the top and the weights removed while breathing on the bottom. and didn't he have a dry suit? As I type, I'm going back to Jim Lapenta's post. Training.

I joked about it once but one of the guys here actually had a bc failure and simply finished the dive decreasing the gas in his cylinder.
 
If it's possible to re-thread incorrectly, then the design needs to be changed.
flots

Are you kidding? Because someone fails to do something correctly it needs to be changed. This is life support equipment. Much like a parachute. Because someone doesn't understand how to pack it correctly or doesn't practice packing it, how can we say the design needs to be changed? Have shown many students how to string these weight pockets. Its not that complicated. Someone who is a experienced diver working on a dive team should definatly have no problem with it. I am in no way indicating fault with diver or equipment. This is just my opinion.
 
I just got a Zeagle Zena and this, of course, appeared alarming to me. I have the mesh yellow weight bags that I put my weights into before I insert them into the pockets of the bc - and I make sure that I insert them so that it's easy to grab that handle to pull them out (for ease when I'm finished diving). Even if the ripcord failed to function I could still unzip the pocket and pull out the bag by the handle. Perhaps they weren't using the mesh bags? Add a heaping helping of anxiety and it can be impossible for someone to access functional critical thinking skills. It really does seem more than odd that all 12 bc's could malfunction in the same manner.
 
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