Dive Specialties

[matt_unique]

I was debating the Dive Master vs. Master Diver rating as well. Like with any course - what you learn depends on you (most important factor) and instructor (second most important). Dive Masters and Instructors spend most of their time doing shallow dives at the same local novice sites. This is not a knock on instructors it's just a fact. There is more demand for Open Water than any other certification so they simply don't have the opportunity to instruct much more than this course. It is a treat for most instructors to be able to dive something other than the same shallow shore sites. My interest was to gain experience with deeper and more advanced sites.

Read about it, think about it, ask questions, if you don't feel comfortable with something ask to spend more time on it, etc. Some instructors are just going through the motions, if you get it half correct, you pass and that's it. Believe me - a Master Diver certification for one person can represent a totally different level of comfort and expertise and experience compared to another diver with the same certification.

Another important fact - an instructor certification does not mean someone is a good/experienced/skilled diver. It is scary to learn how bad some instructors are as divers. Of course there are some awesome instructors out there too that really know their sh*t. Find those guys from referrals and get classes with them. They have seen it all and you can learn a lot from them. Don't take all your certifications with the same instructor - otherwise you will never know if they are any good.

I completed drysuit, deep, night, wreck, and nitrox. These applied to the type of diving I do. I was doing all these dives (except nitrox) prior to taking the certifications. I wanted to reach Master Diver and I wanted to make sure I did not miss anything along the way with my own experience. I did not personally take the courses to introduce me to these types of dives.

That being said the most valuable for me was drysuit and nitrox. I complete my TDI Decompression Procedures course after two more dives. Without nitrox I would have been in the dark.

My 2 cents.

--Matt

 

[IndigoBlue]

mwilding once bubbled...
Not really interested in being a dive shop's *****...
I already have rescue and have far more medical training than PADI could ever give me.
After Master Diver, it'll be just dive and then dive some more until I feel I am ready for moving onto tech diving...

About the only thing you really need for moving on to tech is basic nitrox certification. After achieving that, then the best way to move on to tech would be to do one of two things:

1) proceed to an IANTD, TDI, ANDI, or NAUI Advanced Nitrox course. This is often combined with stage decompression as well; OR

2) start the GUE program with a DIRF course, followed by GUE Tech1.

To decide between the above, talk to the local tech instructors and see who they are affiliated with.

 

[IndigoBlue]

matt_unique once bubbled...
...
That being said the most valuable for me was drysuit and nitrox. I complete my TDI Decompression Procedures course after two more dives. Without nitrox I would have been in the dark.

My 2 cents.

--Matt

Wait to buy your drysuit until you have chosen your tech instructor, or else you may end up with a drysuit that you need to sell again. If you can rent in the meantime, rent a drysuit instead.

One of the biggest problems of moving on to tech training is having to replace a lot of your gear that was great for 50 ft recreational diving, but which will not work for 330 ft tech training. That primarily holds true for regs, drysuit, B/C, tanks, tank valves, and a computer.

 

[Kevin R]

One of the biggest problems of moving on to tech training is having to replace a lot of your gear that was great for 50 ft recreational diving, but which will not work for 330 ft tech training. That primarily holds true for regs, drysuit, B/C, tanks, tank valves, and a computer

Not if you started with a harness and wing system such as the Halcyon Pioneer or eclipse single tank setups. The only thing you need to change is your wing. All of the equipment you need to manage in a task loaded situation stays the same wether you are diving a single or doubles. This is how it is taught on the DIR fundamentals course.

Kevin

 

[IndigoBlue]

Kevin Ripley once bubbled...


Not if you started with a harness and wing system such as the Halcyon Pioneer or eclipse single tank setups. The only thing you need to change is your wing. All of the equipment you need to manage in a task loaded situation stays the same wether you are diving a single or doubles. This is how it is taught on the DIR fundamentals course.

Kevin

Indeed if, given that he/she subsequently chooses one of the other routes, like NAUI, ANDI, IANTD or TDI rather than GUE.

You have to choose the instructor first, and his/her agency, before you start loading up on gear.

 

[SubMariner]

Dive Masters and Instructors spend most of their time doing shallow dives at the same local novice sites. This is not a knock on instructors it's just a fact. There is more demand for Open Water than any other certification so they simply don't have the opportunity to instruct much more than this course

I beg to differ. The aforementioned is only true if you let it be that way.

An Instructor who does nothing but primary level (e.g.: PADI Open Water) diving Instruction is one who does not understand multi-level training or continuing education both from the student AND Instructor POV.

BTW, I'm right with you for Nitrox & Drysuit. Drysuits rock!

 

[matt_unique]

It was painful to learn how inadequate most of my recreational gear was/is for tech diving. The fact is it really should be - when you start out you want simple and streamlined. You don't need 8 D rings and a giant BC for a recreational diving. You want simple/uncomplicated gear that is easy to manage while underwater. That is especially true here in New England where you need to be able to feel everything and manage it through quarter inch three fingered gloves.

A good instructor can show you how to make your recreational system work for tech but you need to recognize the limits and dive accordingly. Several pieces of gear have to be attached with zip ties and we also have D rings strapped to the tank. I am going the single 120 CF tank route through my tech course. I also have a 30CF pony/deco bottle. This system with an H or Y valve provides the necessary redundancy and air supply for the type of diving I am doing presently.

In terms of instructors - I'm sure there are some in an area where there is more opportunity to train advanced students. In this area the majority of the training is OW. I had to wait 4 months to take this tech class for example. There are only a few schools that offer it because there is not a lot of demand for it. Most instructor friends I know do OW classes about 70% of the time in my estimate. I'm not certain of the % but they definitely do more OW than anything else simple due to the local demand.

--Matt

 

[divedude]

I don't know much about specialty courses or dir.
I started as a open water diver like we all do, including "tech" divers. I went and did my advanced then rescue and after getting lost of dives I decided to go for my DM in 1993 the instructor believed that it should be like an apprenticeship, so I started in spring 1993 and was almost a year of diving almost every weekend and every Wednesday night as a instructor helper. I became a DM in 1994 Even in the winter, we dove in the St. Clair river as it never froze with the current very often.

I took a cave course the next year and since have never taken another course. I have dove with a great many people over the years since some very famous divers and some not so famous: but damm good. I have even dove with the Semi Famous Dan McKay and Tom R.

If you want to be a good diver then dive your butt off as much as you can and listen to experienced divers and learn from them and "THINK" every dive! Plan for problems and "THINK" your way through them. Do scenario's in you head as your diving or doing safety stops: eg. what if I have a free flow! go through step by step what you would do to control the problem.
What if someone kicks my mask off. Go through each step to resolve the problem. On a safety stop,pull your mask off and replace it so it becomes second nature.
On safety stops remove your reg and go for your second until going for your second becomes automatic. In a real sutation you just do it because it's automatic and you may save your own life.

Thinking and practiceing skill often will do more for your diving then any specialty course.

Just my opinion not often right.....................Just ask my wife

 

[Kevin R]

You have to choose the instructor first, and his/her agency, before you start loading up on gear

Actually, if you are fortunate enough to come into contact with divers who have made a sucessful and somewhat financially painless transisition into technicial diving you should have no problems with choosing a gear setup that works in both enviroments. However, if you aren't exposed to this and choose only to buy according to what your shop and recreational instructors tell you "works", when you do find a real technicial shop, leave your credit card at the counter. Before buying anything, ask the people who are doing the type of diving you intend to do. The backplate and wing system works for both rec and tech. It's the only system that can be easily converted.

Kevin

 

[seahunter]

Your reply SubMariner was somewhat ignored.
It deserves it's own thread!

The original comment was true. Obviously the vast majority of scuba instruction is at the open water level. That is the source of recruits for all Con Ed courses. But, as you tried to point out, a scuba instructor who limits his teaching and likely his diving to open water levels only, soon becomes an expert AT THAT LEVEL ONLY!

Many instructors find a niche in which they are comfortable. In my experience in the scuba education industry (35 years), if you teach only scuba courses that are comfortable, you are not serving the divers well and may in fact, be doing them a disservice. You are preparing new divers to enter the sport. You must be knowledgeable in all areas of the sport into which they may venture so you can adequately prepare them or at least direct them. And, that knowledge must be current. Scuba training has changed a bit in 35 years (really?!!). Having taken an advanced course 15 years ago is irrelevant today for an Open Water instructor.
PADI actually requires you to discuss and promote Con Ed with new divers. How can you do that if you've no current experience with upper level courses?

Some instructors are great classroom teachers but do not want to go to open water. Others love taking new divers diving but don't like to teach in a class. A forward thinking school will have an Instructor Improvement Program to ensure that all instructors stay current with all levels and with all aspects of each level.

I can't wait until PADI insists that all scuba instructors are Master Divers first.

Just to add fuel to the fire, are you aware that you can become a scuba instructor qualified to teach diving to anyone anywhere:
- having made a single dive deeper than 60'?
- without ever having made a night dive?
- without ever diving in water colder than 75 degrees F?
- without ever having made a multi-level dive or even 2 dives in one day?
- without ever wearing a dry suit?

Now when you see comments from instructors or their students that sometimes seem off the wall, just remember that the instructor may have never had the experience of putting on a 7mm wetsuit or wearing a 30 pound weight belt. How can the student possibly gain an appreciation for those missed joys of diving??

More sobering is the realization that the student (and the instructor) thinks he is capable of diving anywhere.
Choose your buddies carefully!