Dive Master training in NZ -- does this sound legit?

[ToddWaldorf]

Hello BSD board,

Disclaimer: My status level will not allow me to post in the "Going Pro" section. If there is an area this post should be in that a SB-newbie can post in I will happily move the post over to it.

I'm looking at a scuba shop here in New Zealand to teach me my Dive Master training. I love the water and have considered this choice for some time now. It's a lifestyle over monetary reward choice. Basically, I want to spend most of my days where I am happy.

The shop for the DM training surprised me with a response of "DM internship". They said that Dive Masters in New Zealand don't typically get paid, but instead pay the shop the equivalent of $1989 USD and then work for three months un-paid.

They explain the internship as follows:

"There is a lot more to becoming a dive master than some think; it’s not just a case of doing a few courses; when we train DM’s we take them out day after day with real customers so they see the good, bad and the ugly (as the saying goes), so when they leave here so really know the job well and are an asset to any future dive centre."

- will know the IDC level of info for instructor exam (if want to take)
- learn equip repair
- be aware of how to service boat and fix trucks

"so that when your CV lands on a dive shop owners desk ... you offer the WHOLE package."

I'm ready to do whatever it takes to do what I love but I also want to make a smart decision. Is this the best way to go about pursuing my dream or is this company taking advantage of me? The unpaid for three months work raised a red flag.

Thanks for reading my post. Apologies in advance for not finding the correct board if this is not it.

Kindly,

Todd

 

[herman]

Strange as it sounds, that appears to be an honest shop with a good program. If you were under the illusion that being a DM (not dive guide but actual DMs that assist with classes) is some kind of paying job, it's not. DMs, at least in the states don't make much if any pay for working with a shop. The "DM's" you see on vacation are usually dive instructors, working as boat hands, instructors and dive guides, almost none are actually DMs....or some places they are just a dive guide and nothing more. From the way you describe the class, it appears that they actually teach you what a working DM does as opposed to the DM/instructor mills that run you though a week or 2 course with fake students and just barely make the requirements. By the way, for the most part, that is the way my shop does it but we (DMs) are some of the lucky few that are compensated ( not much but it does help) for working with classes. DMing is for the love of diving, not a career.

 

[rick00001967]

this is typical of most locations i have seen. there are some that apparently are different. someone posted a thread about Dressel divers in Mexico that apparently does it differently.
i myself have a bit of a problem with this line of thinking. i know that an "internship" is common in some fields of employment. but i think the term "internship" is just a word they use to say....."come work for us for free". it has always seemed odd to me that anyone who is trying to build a career in a given field would not only pay for the training, but do all the work for free as well.
from the dive ops point of view, they seem to believe that you should feel privileged to be allowed to spend 3 months with them and gain some experience in that business. and to some extent i see the point. but i think that maybe it would make more sense to have two scenarios.....

one......you agree to sign a work contract guaranteeing the shop a certain amount of time that you will work for them. you will be paid a fair wage for that location depending on your assets just like any other real job. you pay your own living expenses as well just like any other real job. and for that, they will cover the costs of your training (except for maybe books that you get to keep, or cert cards ect).

or two......if you only want the training and will be moving on once completed, then you pay the whole shot. but i think you should still be paid for the work you do. even if it is the bare minimum for that area.

if i am not mistaken......there either is a case now (or maybe it was settled) before a court in the u.s. about pay for internships. i had heard a long story about it on the radio one day. but it was quite a long time ago. i believe it was a labor law suit about the movie industry. and obviously whatever the results, it would have no effect on international locations.

i think some dive ops have seen this just as a way to get free labor. take my job for example. i am in the trades (gas fitter). if my company or any other contractor company (electrical, plumbing ect) was to all of a sudden decide to not pay any of its trainees we would have a total collapse of the industry. maybe this is just simply due to the law of supply and demand ?? maybe the contractors need the workers more than the workers need the contractors ?? so maybe there are more people in the world who want to try and have a career in the scuba industry than are really needed ?? the bottom line is that as long as people are willing to pay for the chance to train at a given dive op, and do all that work for free, the dive ops will take advantage of that. if tomoorow everyone who was thinking of doing a DM internship was to say "f.u., we are not willing to do this any more.".......what do you think would happen ?? the dive ops would have no choice but to change their ways right. but thats not gonna happen any time soon, if ever. hey......isn't this how unions were first started ??

 

[ToddWaldorf]

herman,

Thanks for your reply. I'm going to talk with the dive shop about IDC and IE certification. Although I will benefit from being a DM and will pursue that regardless, for eventual pay I will need these qualifications.

I like the "get your feet wet" opportunity that the program I mentioned above offers. It sounds like I could get similar experience by passing my DM training and then hopping on board as an intern equivalent, working for free, DM for a shop and helping them. Perhaps by passing the DM course and then pursuing an un-paid DM gig I would be able to alleviate some of the costs of the "internship".

I appreciate your response. It's helped me move a bit further in my understanding.

Todd

---------- Post added February 4th, 2013 at 12:34 PM ----------

rick1967,

The internship lingo is what made me want to ask around a bit. I don't mind paying my dues but I also don't want to be taken advantage of. It would be a bit disheartening to find out later down the road I could have done the same work for a wage.

Thanks,

Todd

 

[rick00001967]

PADI Divemaster Internships & Dive Academy!

 

[Quero]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Thread moved to Going Pro forum.

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[rjack321]

Nobody gets paid a living wage as a DM. You are giving them $2000 USD so you can work for them? Insanity. But even with that, it won't get you a paying job as a DM. Maybe some tips here and there, or free air. But not enough to eat or pay the rent.

 

[LaMissJude]

For New Zealand, I don't really know myself, I never worked there. Supergajin was saying to me that salary, as an instructor, is low. So I can imagine that for a DM it would be worse.

However, when I did my Divemaster course (in Egypt) it took 6 full weeks (ok it's not 3 months) I paid the course 1000 euros + PADI fees et material + I bought my own equipment. I was fed for lunch, but had to take care of the accomodation and the other meals. It cost me an arm and the shoulder that comes with, BUT it was a freaking good course!
And I found a job straight after it, as a Divemaster. The salary was low though.

I liked the fact that I was kind of still a paying customer, even if I had to work real hard... That's part of the job, it should be part of the training somehow... even if there is a BIG difference between training a DM candidate and giving the DM candidate all and only the crap and hard jobs to do.

I don't know the place ToddWaldorf is talking about myself, but this deal sound pretty honest and serious.
Will they be willing to employ you after this? or can they give you some good contacts?

If after 3 months training, you are a qualified DM, able to maintain diving equipment and fix some engines (trucks/boat) I think it's a good deal...

 

[Oldbear]

You can watch all of the traiing videos and read all of the training books out there...but there is NO substitute for open water dive experience. If the internship offers good quality experience that the internship is well worth it. As to speak to former DM students; if the school readily offers you a list great, if they balk at the idea I would look elsewhere.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[supergaijin]

IMO, the 'internship' for DM training is often designed at getting relatively new divers up to speed, to start thinking about diving as a profession- not fun. You can have fun while working, but when you consider (in NZ), that a 12 hour working day may involve less than 2 hours underwater.... it aint all beer and skittles.

If you've spent a couple hundred hours or so of your life underwater, that may well be enough 'real-life' experience to mean that a 3 month internship is not necessary at all.

Personally if I was you, I'd ask for a email containing the 'experiences' that you'll be undertaking- ask for some details. Generally speaking, kiwi shops are pretty well run and honest IME, but you never know. Sharing work responsibilities is fine, but being the 'shop bitch' is not. Kiwis being kiwis though, there may be a bit of 'hazing', but normally that should be followed by a beer or 9, and a foundation of friendship and a true 'student-mentor' relationship.

Internships are a good way to get working knowledge of the industry. While it may seem expensive... well... it doesn't get any cheaper from here! PADI fees, equipment, insurance, travel costs if you decide to move overseas etc. Don't look at it as $2000 and then working for free for 3 months- it's more like $2000 to become one of the team, with instructors teaching you stuff everyday for 3 months.

You can work as a DM in NZ, but it's all but impossible overseas nowadays- for that you need to be an instructor, and in many countries you need an extra language, or some very useful skills like engine repairs.

Again, don't read it as 3 months of unpaid work; rather it's potentially 3 months of a life changing experience.