Dive Injury Treatment-Split from Catalina Diver Death

[Leejnd]

To answer your second question- The chamber in and of itself would not be of benefit. However, in the case of the Catalina chamber, the rescue teams and the on site medical staff are all very well versed in diver trauma. If I had a problem, that's where I would want to go, and chance are I would get there quickly and be being worked on en route. So the chamber would not help, but the staff and available equipment sure could.

Exactly. I have participated in "Chamber Day" twice now, and will probably do it again, and I never cease to be impressed with the facilities, the staff, and just the overall committment to superior diver care and treatment. I feel fortunate to live in a place where there IS such a committment...and I have thought to myself before, well if something DID happen to me, I have a better chance than most that I will be okay because I have access to the best resources. (And of course I have DAN. )

But I wanted to mention that the reason I posted what I posted, was because I actually have heard divers talking about pushing NDL limits and saying things like "Hey, if I take a hit, I'll just go take a ride in the chamber." That is foolhardy and, well, nuts. I know I don't need to belabor this (although I guess I kinda am), but if my comments stop ONE person who might otherwise push their limits because, hey, the chamber is right around the corner, then my post was of value.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

What do you think happens to your lungs when you hold your breath from depth? . . . And how would a chamber help with this type trauma?

Talk about hijacking a thread, I'm about to be extremely guilty (although it does relate to why the victim last week was taken to our Chamber) . . .

Dwayne, I'm going to switch hats here and assume the role of Chairman of Chamber Day, an annual fund-raising benefit for the Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber (in your backyard), and the largest single-day scuba charity event in the United States. (In 2009, we raised $115,000 for our Catalina Hyperbaric Chmaber.) As chairman of this event since 1990, I think I might have a little bit of insight into what chambers can do.

To specifically answer your "how-would-a-chamber-help" query: This is EXACTLY what a Chamber does. There are certainly success stories where a clincially dead diver who has suffered an air embolism has been brought to the Catalina Chamber in full cardiac arrest, taken down to 165', and they sit up and go "Where am I and how did I get here?"

I'm certainly not going to say it happens every time. And speed in getting the injured diver to the Chamber plays a major role too. But to think an embolsim is an automatic death sentence is absolutely wrong.

You can learn more about the Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber and the work it does at this website: Welcome to the University of Southern California Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber.

You can learn more about Chamber Day and the things we do (Chamber Day/Eve 2010 will be Wednesday, May 5) at this website: Welcome to Chamber Day 2009! .

And to bring this full circle with your original posts about how experienced divers guiding/mentoring newbies is great learning tool (and hopefully not sounding too snarky) . . . well, yes but . . . not if you're passing on bad info. And if you truly don't know that a hyperbaric chamber can cure/fix/repair an embolsim, then we need to get you up to speed in that area so the information you pass on to others is accurate.

As the saying goes, practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.



- Ken

 

[Cave Diver]

I believe that a lot of people are getting an AGE confused with a lung over expansion injury (Pulmonary Barotrauma).

An AGE can be the result of a PB, but they are two separate injuries.

Barotrauma definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

Pulmonary barotrauma definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

arterial gas embolism - definition of arterial gas embolism in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[merxlin]

I believe that a lot of people are getting an AGE confused with a lung over expansion injury (Pulmonary Barotrauma).

An AGE can be the result of a PB, but they are two separate injuries.

Thanks for the info CD. You are correct, and in this case my speculation is that the diver suffered an over-expansion injury first.

 

[boulderjohn]

There are several kinds of lung over-expansion injuries, and there are varying degrees of each. It is in theory possible that you who are reading this might have suffered a very minor one in the past. I read a theory once that suggested that some cases of DCS hits when the diver is within normal limits may have actually begun as minor ever expansion injuries.

I know someone who suffered one form of this, subcutaneous emphysema, and recovered quickly after treatment. You can also have a pneumothorax or a mediastinal emphysema.

Most people here who are assuming quick and certain death with all such injuries are thinking of arterial gas embolisms.

This may be helpful:
Diving Doctor - Diver Magazine

 

[DwayneJ]

Talk about hijacking a thread, I'm about to be extremely guilty (although it does relate to why the victim last week was taken to our Chamber) . . .

Dwayne, I'm going to switch hats here and assume the role of Chairman of Chamber Day, an annual fund-raising benefit for the Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber (in your backyard), and the largest single-day scuba charity event in the United States. (In 2009, we raised $115,000 for our Catalina Hyperbaric Chmaber.) As chairman of this event since 1990, I think I might have a little bit of insight into what chambers can do.

I was not specific enough in my original post - and was referring to an over expansion injury and not an AGE and I do understand that with an over expansion injury, you can also suffer an AGE.

Chamber treats AGE and other decompression illnesses but not the Over Expansion Injury. Correct?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

If there were a physician on staff at the chamber, then he could definitely do something like insert a chest tube (in the case of a pneumothorax). What kinds of diagnostic instrumentation do they have at the Catalina facility? X-ray machine? I've never visited.

The closest hyperbaric chamber to me (San Diego) is located inside the University Hospital (Hillcrest). The ER is just downstairs from the chamber.

 

[drbill]

I like the fact that much of my diving occurs within 15 miles of an outstanding chamber. However, that knowledge has never let me feel I could let down my guard and not dive in what I considered to be an extra safe manner.

 

[Leejnd]

Bill - I was on a boat once for a bug hunt trip. The first dive went to 90'. (Which I thought was kinda bad planning on the skipper's part - when I'm hunting I'd much rather go shallow so I can get in more bottom time, and thus more bugs, but that's neither here nor there...) Anyway, during our surface interval, two of the divers were talking about how one of them had come within a minute of his NDL before beginning his ascent. That diver actually came right out and said, "Hey, it's no biggie - if I take a hit, the chamber is right over there, dude!"

I'm with you - I love the fact that the vast majority of my diving takes place within close proximity of a fantastic chamber. And I'm also with you on not allowing that knowledge to give me false sense of security, and/or push my limits. But clearly not everybody thinks like us!

 

[vladimir]

arterial gas embolism - definition of arterial gas embolism in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Thanks, Cave Diver. I now know that if I'm going to have "orogenital sex during pregnancy" I should be prepared for arterial gas embolism. Would hyperbaric treatment be indicated in that case? Assuming my partner and I were at 1 ata at the time, of course?