Dive Computer Failure- What Happened?

[KeithG]

When I first decided that I should probably get a computer and was willing to spend up to $20 for one I was looking at some Uwatecs on eBay. Most had dead batteries, so I went on YouTube and learned how to change the battery. I was impressed with the way they were oil-filled and it seemed like, unless it was sloppily re-assembled, it would be very unlikely to ever flood. Some computers I looked at seemed to be using salt water (the ocean) for connections so it was pretty obvious that those contacts would need to be kept clean and a pencil eraser (a standard scuba equipment tool) was suggested. Naturally I thought that most modern computers were equally as resistant to flooding but apparently that is not the case. I recently did a swap for an AquaLung i300 that was nine months old. It failed somewhere between here and Hawai'i. I sent it back to my friend and he got it replaced under warranty. They said it was the pressure sensor. From what I've read on SB about all I can do is rinse thoroughly and hope. Meanwhile, I have a list of recalled Uwatecs (so I know which ones not to get) and I'm keeping an eye open for a good deal on an old Uwatec. They seem to have a faithful following.

Getting a good Uwatec deal on eBay is getting harder every year.

Claimed working units with new batteries often fetch up to $200US.

Even the unknown condition dead battery only dived on Sundays by a little old lady units are going for over $60US.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Getting a good Uwatec deal on eBay is getting harder every year.

Claimed working units with new batteries often fetch up to $200US.

Even the unknown condition dead battery only dived on Sundays by a little old lady units are going for over $60US.

I noticed that the prices have gone up. This was only a few months ago that my maximum bid was around $15 and it went for maybe $25 or so. Some people are asking high prices even for the ones that have been recalled. I accidentally bid on recalled unit and was going to try to withdraw my bid but fortunately I was outbid.

I'm wondering if perhaps discussions here on SB might be partially responsible for the price increases. 20 years ago you could get an old doublehose regulator for $50 or less. I'm becoming more careful about what I say on here. I only comment on great dive locations that are already over-built and over-crowded

 

[DIVEWATCHDOCTOR]

The old Uwatec models (as the old Beauchats and even one of the first Mares) where (or are) filled with mineral oil. Due to their size, the only way to withstand the pressure exerted over the display side of the case and not collapsing (remember F (force) = P (pressure) x Area) is to allow the internals to withstand the same pressure as the front display and so the internals are encapsulated in mineral oil to prevent sea water getting there. They are the most reliable computers I've ever seen but their 3.6 V battery is soldered to the circuit board so you have to have some good soldering skills before trying to change one of these batteries without frying an electronic component. Being able to change the battery is solving 1/3 of the problem. The second third is being able to refill them without leaving air bubbles (the computer will work even with bubbles except it simply doesn't look good). The third part of the problem is knowing how to restart them and reset the battery indicator to 99%. But yes, they extremely reliable computers. Incidentally, I believe the modern Scubapro Sol and Luna are also oil filled except the battery goes in a separate compartment and is user replaceable.

 

[DIVEWATCHDOCTOR]

Yeah. Dielectric fluids aside and sealed battery compartments notwithstanding.[/QUOTE]

Dmaziuk, If you test a sealed battery compartment dive computer in a standard pressure pot you can still partially flood the battery compartment and don't realize it, just to learn you flooded it a few days after, as BillP can attest.

 

[DIVEWATCHDOCTOR]

I seem remember reading in the past that at least some computers need to be immersed in water when under pressure. True?

Addendum: A search of my computers' manual says:

Do not test or use the [dive computer] in pressurized air

And a quick Google search found this warning in the Oceanic Datamax Pro manual:

Warning: Never pressure test the Datamax Pro in an air environment. Doing so may damage the depth sensor; possibly resulting in erroneous depth or time readings.

BillP, The Bergeon pressure tester is a two-stage (or two-phase) tester. First, you pressurize the computer in the upper part of the cylinder which contains air and after a couple of minutes, without depressurizing the vessel, you dunk the computer in the water filling the lower part of the reservoir (otherwise the wet contacts will never set the computer in dive mode). If the computer is not 100% waterproof, the pressurized air got inside during phase 1 and when gradually depressurizing the vessel during phase 2, air bubbles would come out of the computer revealing if the rear seal, a pushbutton or even the crystal seal is not waterproof. These testers were developed by the Swiss watch industry to pressure test very high-end dive watches -Rolex and alike- without ending with a nice $ 6,000 paperweight. I am aware that some dive computers manuals recommend not testing it in pressurized air. However, let me just state that at Divewatchdoctor we have pressure tested in this chamber close to a thousand of dive computers and dive watches (almost all the brands and models there are). The procedure has never damaged the pressure sensor in any of the tested computers. The only difference we have noticed is that some Suunto computers, more specifically the D4, tend to indicate a slightly shallower depth during the test. However, after verifying the computer is 100% waterproof we retest it in a conventional way (dunk it into the water and pressurize afterward) to find out always the correct depth is indicated by the computer. Also, we have never received a complaint from a client saying the computer does not indicate depth correctly.

 

[dmaziuk]

Manufacturing defects are most likely associated with infant mortality type issues (first couple of years?). My 23 year old computer that went ERR mode last year is not likely a manufacturing defect.

Well, I am getting to the age where 23 yo is an infant... But in computer years there's probably other bits on their way out by then: plastics getting brittle, dry solder turning into dust and so on.

 

[dmaziuk]

If you test a sealed battery compartment dive computer in a standard pressure pot you can still partially flood the battery compartment and don't realize it, just to learn you flooded it a few days after, as BillP can attest.

If you flood your battery compartment bad enough to have electrolysis going on in there, I'd expect a 99% chance that will put your computer into GAMEOVER mode very fast. The story sounds much more like an alkaline batteries springing a leak. Still weird though, whatever the cause...

 

[Scubagaskets]

Thanks Scubagaskets. I used your site as a resource to try to find o-rings for my computers. I didn't find my computers listed, which isn't surprising considering their age, but I did find the right size.

Today those o-rings list for 11.50€ for 50 o-rings plus 8.00€ shipping or 19.50€. I didn't see where they were 25% off of that price so I assume that is the discounted price?

That's $22.53USD at today's exchange rate plus a 3% foreign exchange fee from my credit card or ~$23.21 for 50 o-rings or 46¢ per o-ring, I assume shipped from Europe.

So that you know what you're up against, today I also found the o-rings from Scuba Choice via Amazon for $6.48 for 50 o-rings including shipping and tax or 13¢ per o-ring. (They were $6.01 when I ordered them.) They weren't on Amazon Prime, but they arrived 4 days after I ordered them.

Also, on the Amazon website did NOT have a popup for online chat come up on every single page blocking my view of the page. I couldn't use your chat feature because I couldn't find a way to use it without signing up for Facebook, which I don't use. Have you considered a "No Thanks" button on the popup?

Appreciate your input, though.

Dear Mr BillP
Yes you are correct ScubaGakets page is an open source of o-ring size information that no other shop give for free so is often used as a reference .We let people know the dimensions of each o-ring(not just a part number) and this is something that our customers in 56 countries appreciate a lot.

We have 8 different dive computers o-rings and they are sold in pack of 2 or in pack of 10. They are really expensive (ranging from 0.6 to 3 euros each) and they are all on 25 % discount . We don't sell any computer o-rings in 50 pack.Can you let me know what product you found at the price of 11.5euro and for what computer can be used for since in your post you didn't gave any other info about it ? Maybe you are accusing me falsely here.At scuba gaskets we do what we say. By the way all orders over 40 euro have free shipping ! Have you seen that ??
At scubagaskets we are not just selling o-rings ,we are selling SCUBA grade o-rings with the quality certificates of our supplying company ,like ISO 9001, QS 9000, TS16949 and Aerospace AS 9100 approvals . Europeseals is our supplying company and we are proud to mention it on every single pack of our products. I haven't seen any other company claiming to sell scuba garde o-rings and state their origin in Amazon or elsewhere in the internet.

Is our believe that quality and safety must come first in scuba industry. You rather save 2-3 euros for the o-ring every 3-4 years and risk loosing your computer. Of course the choice is yours to make and order from the shop you think is the best for you, but there was no need for this aggressive attitude against scubagaskets.
I dedicated 12 years of my life and a lot of resources in order to bring scubagaskets to the present point, that is the most specialised SCUBA o-ring shop globally with more than 230 different SCUBA o-rings. Can you find any other shop having this product range?

You can always use the email for any questions if you can't use the live chat if you really want some answers.

I think the objective of your post was not honest aiming to spoil the name of ScubaGaskets to all members, and promote another web page, and that is the reason i spend time responding to this post .
If it was a personal message i would much appreciate it and even thanked you for it but is not.
If i misunderstood your intentions please forgive me
Kind regards
Nicolas

 

[BillP]

Hi Scubagaskets:

I'm sorry that you took offense to my response to your post in my thread. Obviously ScubaGaskets is a labor of love for you that you take very seriously. You can be proud of it. Unlike some discussion sites where any form of advertising in threads is frowned upon or even banned, as a board member here, I appreciate the participation of scuba industry professionals in the discussions. Their input can be very helpful, particularly when they actually join in the discussions and share their experience. But this is a community where members share their knowledge and freely discuss their opinions on a wide range of topics. I've been on this board nearly since its founding day (with big gaps in participation) and I've come to expect that pretty much anything I post will be questioned or even argued. I've gotten used to it.

Yes you are correct ScubaGakets page is an open source of o-ring size information that no other shop give for free so is often used as a reference .We let people know the dimensions of each o-ring(not just a part number) and this is something that our customers in 56 countries appreciate a lot.

Yes, that's great that you list the specs for your o-rings. It's helpful. Unfortunately as I mentioned, my computers are so old they weren't even mentioned on your site. That wasn't unexpected, but I had to use the specs to find the right size o-ring on your site.

We have 8 different dive computers o-rings and they are sold in pack of 2 or in pack of 10. They are really expensive (ranging from 0.6 to 3 euros each) and they are all on 25 % discount . We don't sell any computer o-rings in 50 pack.Can you let me know what product you found at the price of 11.5euro and for what computer can be used for since in your post you didn't gave any other info about it ? Maybe you are accusing me falsely here.At scuba gaskets we do what we say. By the way all orders over 40 euro have free shipping ! Have you seen that ??

I purposely did not include specifics about my computers in this thread because I was bringing up general points that should apply to any computer and didn't want the discussion sidetracked into arguments about algorithms, etc. However, the general discussion of o-rings is pertinent to this thread and one of the primary reasons why I started it. Since you ask, my computer uses 26,7 mm x 1,78 mm, Duro 70, nitrile o-rings. In the US the size would be listed as SCAS-568-023 o-rings.

See the attached photo of your product that seems to most closely match those requirements. You can see that they're listed as qty: 50 for 11.50€. You're right, I did not find where your website offers this size as "computer" o-rings, so I assume that's why they don't appear to be on sale? Would they not be suitable for use as computer o-rings? And yes, I did see that you offer free shipping for orders over 40€, but as you pointed out, I only needed a few o-rings and didn't see the wisdom of spending an additional 28.5€ for more o-rings that I don't need in order to save 8€ in shipping costs (grin). Your offer of free shipping would benefit a buyer that needs large quantities, but wouldn't have been helpful to me.

At scubagaskets we are not just selling o-rings ,we are selling SCUBA grade o-rings with the quality certificates of our supplying company ,like ISO 9001, QS 9000, TS16949 and Aerospace AS 9100 approvals . Europeseals is our supplying company and we are proud to mention it on every single pack of our products. I haven't seen any other company claiming to sell scuba garde o-rings and state their origin in Amazon or elsewhere in the internet.

Is our believe that quality and safety must come first in scuba industry. You rather save 2-3 euros for the o-ring every 3-4 years and risk loosing your computer. Of course the choice is yours to make and order from the shop you think is the best for you, but there was no need for this aggressive attitude against scubagaskets.
I dedicated 12 years of my life and a lot of resources in order to bring scubagaskets to the present point, that is the most specialised SCUBA o-ring shop globally with more than 230 different SCUBA o-rings. Can you find any other shop having this product range?

You bring up an important point that has concerned me. Because my computer manufacturer has abandoned my computers and no longer supplies battery replacement kits I have to rely on other sources for o-rings for my computers. My LDS that changed my batteries either didn't trust a source other than the manufacturer or they didn't want to bother finding other sources for the o-rings so they just inspected and reused my old o-rings. I believe that was a mistake. Even if I send my computers out to a factory authorized repair center for future battery changes, I will have to rely on them to source the o-rings since even they can't get them from the manufacturer. You have obviously studied o-rings closely. I think it would be very helpful if you could share your experience with the board on o-ring quality and which o-rings to avoid and why. How is one SCAS-568-023, Duro 70, nitrile o-ring different from another? Why would I not want to buy o-rings from another dealer that specifically sells them for use in scuba?

You can always use the email for any questions if you can't use the live chat if you really want some answers.

Of course you're right, but that's a work-around and not a fix. It wouldn't make the popup box get out of the way. IMHO, having a chat link that is accessible but doesn't cover up content would improve your site. At least have a chat link that can be closed. It sure would have made my experience better. Like I said, I don't use Facebook so I couldn't use your chat feature even if I needed to, but even if I did I wouldn't want to give my Facebook info to a website just to ask a question. You might consider changing. Not a really a criticism, just a suggestion. Just my 2¢.

I think the objective of your post was not honest aiming to spoil the name of ScubaGaskets to all members, and promote another web page, and that is the reason i spend time responding to this post .e
If it was a personal message i would much appreciate it and even thanked you for it but is not.
If i misunderstood your intentions please forgive me.

Yes, you did misunderstand my intentions, and apology accepted. You publicly posted one option for readers of this thread and I responded by sharing my experience about an alternative available to those same board members. We're a community, after all. I certainly get no personal benefit from mentioning Amazon. If you had contacted ME privately, I would have responded privately.

I'm sure that you will have a lot of valuable experience to contribute to this thread. How about redirecting the discussion to what you know about the quality of various o-rings on the market? I think that everyone would find that helpful.

 

[DIVEWATCHDOCTOR]

If you flood your battery compartment bad enough to have electrolysis going on in there, I'd expect a 99% chance that will put your computer into GAMEOVER mode very fast. The story sounds much more like an alkaline batteries springing a leak. Still weird though, whatever the cause...

The key word I used is "partially" to refer to one of the ways you can flood a separate battery compartment dive computer. This can go on for days unnoticed because tap water is used to pressure test (only harm caused at this point is the discharge of the battery at a faster rate). However, when you take it to the sea and saltwater creeps into the battery dies pretty fast. Not to mention that the corrosion process attacks the + terminal. However, as you say, if you flood the battery compartment bad enough, is gameover very fast.