dive computer dilemmas

[chironomidkraut]

i am considering getting the Oceanic Veo 3.0 dive computer, seems pretty user friendly, but people/shop owner/instructors are trying to tell me that the wireless air integrated dc's are the way to go, so then i would choose the oceanic VT3, so i guess what i am asking, is it worth spending $900 bucks cdn on an air integrated computer, when the Veo 3.0 is $500 and seems like it would do me just fine?? Does anybody have these computers and whats their opinion??

 

[idocsteve]

Wireless AI computers are the way to go

- You can eliminate a hose, and even another hose with a BCD secondary reg, that gets you down to two hoses for a very streamlined rig
-AI computers are very reliable and give you all the information you need, right there on your wrist or at the end of a retractor, whichever you prefer.
-Most AI computers calculate your most limiting factor for a dive and give you dive time remaining which is very cool and allows you to focus on the more enjoyable parts of the dive
-They provide audible and visual alarms which just might shake you out of a narrowminded narcosis induced focus and get you back to the anchor line whereas if you didn't have that reminder you might be so intent on catching that lobster that you end up with an OOA emergency

To name a few...

 

[lmorin]

IMHO, the answer is that it is not worth it. I have the Veo250 and am not sure how it compares to the newer Veo models (the Oceanic comparison info has not been updated). The analog SPG has been around for many years. IMHO, the wireless version doesn't actually provide much added value unless you think having the extra hose/gauge is too much trouble. If so, you probably would not want to use an octopus, either, opting for an octo inflator.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

No, you don't need an air-integrated dive computer. I'd recommend saving the money for essential dive equipment, training, or dive vacations somewhere warm. The Veo 3.0 looks like a good computer, but $500 CAD still seems a bit high for it. If you looked around hard enough, you could probably find a PC-downloadable, nitrox-capable, legible dive computer with intuitive interface and a user-replaceable battery for under $300 USD. It's best to purchase a computer made by a reputable manufacturer with a track record of providing good customer service. (If you're interested, do a search for "Oceanic Geo battery problem" on ScubaBoard. There appears to be a battery issue, and it will be interesting to see how Oceanic handles it.) Gauge mode might be useful down the road. Many dive computers can be mounted in a console or in a wrist-boot depending on your preference.

Most of the arguments for getting a hoseless AI dive computer have already been pointed out. IMO, it's not a big deal to look at an analogue SPG every five minutes during a dive. I also prefer to keep my gas management separate from NDL calculations -- AI dive computers usually only display the most limiting factor at a given point. Analogue SPGs have a long track record of use in the sport of diving. They are simple, reliable, easy to maintain, and don't require batteries (AI computers and their paired wireless transmitters do). I believe that wireless technology has advanced in recent years, but I have friends who still complain about certain hoseless AI computers losing the signal from the transmitter during the dive. For underwater photographers, the firing of strobes has been known to disrupt the signal from transmitter to computer.

All this being said, some people like the convenience of being able to look down at one display and see all relevant dive data (remaining air, NDLs, current depth, ascent rate, etc.). The question you'll have to answer for yourself is whether you're willing to spend the $$$ for that convenience.

As a newer diver, it can be tough making decisions on big ticket scuba items. Salesmen can pressure you with lines like: "Well, it's life support equipment so you want the best." It's not mere coincidence that the "best" is also the most expensive and gives the salesman the highest commission. Do your research, figure out what features are important to you, and then shop around for the best price. Don't let salesmen pressure you into making any rash decisions.

Hope this helps...

 

[rongoodman]

To quote an overused phrase, I see AI computers as a "solution looking for a problem". Once you get a little experience with your air consumption rates you're not going to be needing to check your air every minute or two. Also, depending on the dive, partners, etc, I think your gas management might need to be more sophisticated than trusting your computer's estimate of how much time you have left. What do you need for minimum gas, will you be using thirds, halves, what kind of SAC rate does your stressed partner have?

 

[idocsteve]

I think your gas management might need to be more sophisticated than trusting your computer's estimate of how much time you have left. What do you need for minimum gas, will you be using thirds, halves, what kind of SAC rate does your stressed partner have?

An AI computer's estimate of dive time remaining will do the calculations faster and with more accuracy than a diver doing the calculations 'by hand'.

Most AI computers can be set so that remaining dive time can be configured for any particular dive situation that you will be in, more or less depending on any and all of the factors you mentioned in your post.

If you dive with a buddy and he's got an AI computer to, then his SAC rate will already have been determined...by his AI computer. If he doesn't have one...well then what sort of logic is it to say "my buddy might not have the same technologically advanced gear that I do so why should I bother?"

 

[Bubbletrubble]

If you dive with a buddy and he's got an AI computer to, then his SAC rate will already have been determined...by his AI computer. If he doesn't have one...well then what sort of logic is it to say "my buddy might not have the same technologically advanced gear that I do so why should I bother?"

I think rongoodman was talking about incorporating a buddy's stressed SAC rate into Rock Bottom gas calculations. For instance, if your buddy loses all of his gas, then your gas will have to get both you and your buddy to the surface. If your buddy's SAC rate is typically higher, then you could easily allow for that by doing your own calculations. I don't think that an AI computer has this level of sophistication. I'm sure an AI computer will spit out a decent estimate of your own SAC rate, but most divers dive as a buddy pair and the computer will not take your buddy into consideration at all (for rock bottom). I don't know, maybe AI computers allow the user to "pad" gas usage estimates to make it more conservative when gas supply is limiting. I guess one could use this as a way to allow for rock bottom gas calcs, but it's less than ideal.

 

[redacted]

An AI computer's estimate of dive time remaining will do the calculations faster and with more accuracy than a diver doing the calculations 'by hand'.

It will do the calculations more precisely (assuming you will remain at your current depth) but it will not be more accurate unless that assumption is correct. You, OTOH, have your dive plan and a good idea of where you will be in 5, 10, and 15 minutes which should allow you to make a more accurate estimate of your gas situation if you are changing depths.

My favorite computer cost me $68 on ebay (an Oceanic Data+). It has no idea how much gas I have. It just tells me my depth and dive time, my nitrogen and oxygen loading status, and how long I have (using the same future assumption as above) before I incur a deco obligation. You should take an another look at all the additional information your $500 and $900 alternatives provide and see if it is worth it. I chose to spend that additional money on another dive trip.

 

[idocsteve]

You, OTOH, have your dive plan and a good idea of where you will be in 5, 10, and 15 minutes which should allow you to make a more accurate estimate of your gas situation if you are changing depths.

Thanks for the vote of confidence but if I'm at depth and my dive plan changes a bit, because I stay a bit longer at a particular depth, or follow a turtle, or explore part of the reef or wreck a bit longer than expected, then I do not feel I can accurately change my plan "on the fly" anywhere nearly as my AI computer can, and I would be forced to lose valuable dive time in order to "pad" my own revised estimate to give a good safety margin.

I chose to spend that additional money on another dive trip.

I prefer to spend my extra money on an AI computer that maximizes EVERY dive.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Thanks for the vote of confidence but if I'm at depth and my dive plan changes a bit, because I stay a bit longer at a particular depth, or follow a turtle, or explore part of the reef or wreck a bit longer than expected, then I do not feel I can accurately change my plan "on the fly" anywhere nearly as my AI computer can, and I would be forced to lose valuable dive time in order to "pad" my own revised estimate to give a good safety margin.

@idocsteve: Instead of relying on the AI computer for gas management, you can simply calculate/memorize Rock Bottom for various depths given your tank size and service pressure. Then, so long as you stay above the Rock Bottom gas for a specific depth, you can continue to enjoy your dive. It's not difficult at all.

For instance, for a HP100, Rock Bottom calculations might be: 1200 psi at 100fsw, 800 psi at 60fsw, and 500 psi at 30fsw.
For an AL80, RB calcs might be: 1300 psi at 100fsw, 1000 psi at 60 fsw, and 700 psi at 30fsw.
If your dive buddy has a high SAC rate, adjust the calculations accordingly.