tonka97
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Dive Buddy Incident
- Thread starter Comp.Air.Junkie
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I'm going to say something here that I don't want you to take the wrong way, but I think needs said:
You had no business on that dive.
The reason you had no business on that dive is that you failed to plan out your gas management and you were playing it by ear in terms of bottom time and pressure.
You planned to be on the boat at 500 PSI, but you had no idea at what pressure you needed to turn, you had no idea what your reserve was, you had no idea what your consumtion rate at depth was going to be prior to gettign into the water, so you didn't know what bottom time to expect. You didn't have a sufficiently in-depth conversation with your buddy about turn pressures, reserves, and expected bottom time.
Further, you appearantly had no idea that sharing air has inherent risks that make it an emergency option only and not something to do to appease a boat captain obsessing about pressure once your'e out of the water.
yes, your buddy had issues and should have gotten a foot in his third stage for not ending the dive when you thumbed it.
But in my estimation, your errors demonstrated a more serious problem. You need to plan your dives and you need to dive your plan, and that includes gas management.
You placed yourself in precarious position, and it sounds like you did so through ignorance and inexperience -- thinking that you could somehow play it by ear as to when you turned around and that you'd get close to the right pressures by guess work. That's not bad, we all do that more than we'd care to admit. And I'm no saint here, being a new diver myself.
While it's true that some experienced divers can dive plan "on the fly" because they are very familiar with their consumption rates in various conditions, it is clear that this is not you. As such, you had no business being on a deep dive without adequately planning that dive.
Now, if I'm reading your account wrong -- ignore what I'm saying. But it reads like you had a very loose idea of how to use your gas. If that's the case, you really need to tighten up your dive plan before you go that deep again!
You had no business on that dive.
The reason you had no business on that dive is that you failed to plan out your gas management and you were playing it by ear in terms of bottom time and pressure.
You planned to be on the boat at 500 PSI, but you had no idea at what pressure you needed to turn, you had no idea what your reserve was, you had no idea what your consumtion rate at depth was going to be prior to gettign into the water, so you didn't know what bottom time to expect. You didn't have a sufficiently in-depth conversation with your buddy about turn pressures, reserves, and expected bottom time.
Further, you appearantly had no idea that sharing air has inherent risks that make it an emergency option only and not something to do to appease a boat captain obsessing about pressure once your'e out of the water.
yes, your buddy had issues and should have gotten a foot in his third stage for not ending the dive when you thumbed it.
But in my estimation, your errors demonstrated a more serious problem. You need to plan your dives and you need to dive your plan, and that includes gas management.
You placed yourself in precarious position, and it sounds like you did so through ignorance and inexperience -- thinking that you could somehow play it by ear as to when you turned around and that you'd get close to the right pressures by guess work. That's not bad, we all do that more than we'd care to admit. And I'm no saint here, being a new diver myself.
While it's true that some experienced divers can dive plan "on the fly" because they are very familiar with their consumption rates in various conditions, it is clear that this is not you. As such, you had no business being on a deep dive without adequately planning that dive.
Now, if I'm reading your account wrong -- ignore what I'm saying. But it reads like you had a very loose idea of how to use your gas. If that's the case, you really need to tighten up your dive plan before you go that deep again!
I'm going to agree with Kingpatzer. There are some really good resources on the board for calculating your gas usage aka "Rock Bottom Pressure". 1000psi is late to turn your dive when you're a new diver at 90 feet. While I tend to be a little over-conservative I was AT the upline with 1500psi on my last 90 foot dive. I had 700psi when I got on the boat after finishing a nice slow ascent with a 1 minute stop at 50 feet and a 3 minute stop at 15 feet. I've found that the last 1500psi in the tank tends to go faster than the first 1000psi did; I only have just over 400 dives but I've definitely noticed a pattern that probably has something to do with me being cold later in the dive.
Take the time to learn to determine your SAC rate and calculate rock bottom pressure, it WILL pay off I promise. I take AOW students to 100 feet in cold water and some of them have a turn pressure as high as 1800psi on an 80cf tank when we do the calculations.
Ber :lilbunny:
Rule one: protect your self.
Therfore if your buddy (instabuddy) blows off the dive plan, ignores you, does not respond while concious - leave him and continue with the original plan.
Being a solo ascending diver is NOT an emergency. You need to be comfortable enough in the water to do everything, with the exception of air sharing, by yourself. Especially if you are going to dive with a group of people you don't know. I suggest you stick with your regular dive buddy until you reach the comfort point that you could do any SCUBA skill by yourself and self rescue if necessary. A true ascent is a one-person task anyway unless you are sharing a depth gage with your buddy (sharing a computer is a big No No and sharing a depth gage is not a good idea either).
A buddy is someone who pays attention to where you are and assists you if something REALLY bad happens. Otherwise, you really need to be able to take care of yourself, and hope your buddy shows up to help.
Therfore if your buddy (instabuddy) blows off the dive plan, ignores you, does not respond while concious - leave him and continue with the original plan.
Being a solo ascending diver is NOT an emergency. You need to be comfortable enough in the water to do everything, with the exception of air sharing, by yourself. Especially if you are going to dive with a group of people you don't know. I suggest you stick with your regular dive buddy until you reach the comfort point that you could do any SCUBA skill by yourself and self rescue if necessary. A true ascent is a one-person task anyway unless you are sharing a depth gage with your buddy (sharing a computer is a big No No and sharing a depth gage is not a good idea either).
A buddy is someone who pays attention to where you are and assists you if something REALLY bad happens. Otherwise, you really need to be able to take care of yourself, and hope your buddy shows up to help.
all4scuba05
Contributor
You went on a deep dive. I don't know if you got Advanced Certified right after BOW but in either case your decisions make me think that you're not ready for deep diving.
When I dive deep with an "instabuddy" I carry redundant air as if I were on a solo dive. When I thumb the dive, he can stay if he wants. I'm going up. I know my rock bottom and sac rate. There's no excuse for me to be down there low on air.
Don't get discouraged. Stick around here on Scubaboard and you'll read about what there is that you weren't taught in class. Then go find an instructor or mentor to help you gain some more life saving info.
Dive often but only within your training limits.
When I dive deep with an "instabuddy" I carry redundant air as if I were on a solo dive. When I thumb the dive, he can stay if he wants. I'm going up. I know my rock bottom and sac rate. There's no excuse for me to be down there low on air.
Don't get discouraged. Stick around here on Scubaboard and you'll read about what there is that you weren't taught in class. Then go find an instructor or mentor to help you gain some more life saving info.
Dive often but only within your training limits.
DeepSeaExplorer
Contributor
My response, based on your number of dives, is that you should not have gone to air sharing. You had air and it's probably best to avoid the additional task loading if possible. Secondly, I would not recommend that you ascend alone, based on your number of dives. A better approach is to call the dive and don't take no for an answer. Had you abandoned your buddy, you would be in a solo situation that you aren't prepared for and would have some responsibility if something had happened to him after you departed.
Once back on the boat, if the operator gives you a hard time over the amount of air remaining, just explain that you called the dive in time, but your buddy intentionally ignored you. I would doubt they would prevent you from making the second dive, and may reassign a different buddy for the second dive.
Once back on the boat, if the operator gives you a hard time over the amount of air remaining, just explain that you called the dive in time, but your buddy intentionally ignored you. I would doubt they would prevent you from making the second dive, and may reassign a different buddy for the second dive.
ronski101
Contributor
In this case a buddy was a liability rather than an asset. Your own safety comes first. NEVER plan on relying on a buddy to give you anything especially if you are new to diving which we all were at one time or another. I would end a dive and go up by myself if I wanted to come back with 500+ and he didn't understand or care. Many boat dive ops provide a 2nd stage at 15' if you need it but sharing an octopus to me is for emergency purposes only and should not be part of a dive plan. We all gotta stay within our own comfort zone what ever it is.
Remember your buddy's not there for you. You're there for your buddy. Keep that in mind and you'll realize that some buddies contraindicate diving. So always protect yourself. Be at the anchor line at 1000psi, keep your ascent to 30-60 fpm and stop at 15ft for 3 minutes and you'll live to dive another day.
My first time diving in the real world I was buddies with a boat owner. We went down, and when we were on the bottom, I was on my own. I had a decision to make: be cool and do what what I was taught, or freak out and get pissed off. Seeing how he owned a boat and loved to dive, I figured I needed more training if I was going to dive with him again. So I took every course I could, putting myself in bad situations just to get the experience.
I encourage you to get more training. Don't count on you buddy, but always be there for yours. And above all, have fun. That's what it's all about.
My first time diving in the real world I was buddies with a boat owner. We went down, and when we were on the bottom, I was on my own. I had a decision to make: be cool and do what what I was taught, or freak out and get pissed off. Seeing how he owned a boat and loved to dive, I figured I needed more training if I was going to dive with him again. So I took every course I could, putting myself in bad situations just to get the experience.
I encourage you to get more training. Don't count on you buddy, but always be there for yours. And above all, have fun. That's what it's all about.
Buoyant1
Contributor
Up is up! 5 minutes, 10 minutes etc....I did a dive for 12 minutes last night because my buddy had clearing problems. He looked at me pointed to his problem and up, and we were done. No questions asked, no animosity. He'd do the same if I was in his dive booties.
Can't speak for insta-buddies, but the other guy was wrong, and I would have let him know pronto!
Can't speak for insta-buddies, but the other guy was wrong, and I would have let him know pronto!
cruisegirl
Contributor
I agree with alot of the advice here. Excellent as always.... And that buddy was wrong.... One thing to add though. Is make sure you have good navigational skills.... So that if you have to go on your own due to an inconsiderate or unsafe buddy, you can get back to the boat.
I have a similar experience when being paired up with a buddy on a dive last year. He had YEARS of experience but was used to diving solo for work. We were a three some. We went down. We ended up losing 1 of the 3. He refused to go up to look for her. Error #1. I didn't know where to go as my navigational skills sucked then and I wasn't confident I could get back to the boat. I questioned what was worse. Staying with him or having 2 of us on the surface and not sure where we were.. I stayed with him and worried about her the whole time. Not good on air consumption. Then, we had agreed to come up on 500psi. He refused again and I got very scared to leave him. Again, not sure if I could get to the boat on my own. At 100 psi, he agreed to come up.... We had a horrendous surface swim and I had to orally inflate my BC. I was ticked off and actually, almost stopped diving due to him. I thought, I'm not cut out for this. My lds who I was diving with, gave him a what for and he wasn't allowed to dive with new divers. Then I got a great divemaster to dive with a month later to re-install my confidence, work on navigation and am back to diving alot and loving it..... Thank you Bob.... You know who you are....
I have a similar experience when being paired up with a buddy on a dive last year. He had YEARS of experience but was used to diving solo for work. We were a three some. We went down. We ended up losing 1 of the 3. He refused to go up to look for her. Error #1. I didn't know where to go as my navigational skills sucked then and I wasn't confident I could get back to the boat. I questioned what was worse. Staying with him or having 2 of us on the surface and not sure where we were.. I stayed with him and worried about her the whole time. Not good on air consumption. Then, we had agreed to come up on 500psi. He refused again and I got very scared to leave him. Again, not sure if I could get to the boat on my own. At 100 psi, he agreed to come up.... We had a horrendous surface swim and I had to orally inflate my BC. I was ticked off and actually, almost stopped diving due to him. I thought, I'm not cut out for this. My lds who I was diving with, gave him a what for and he wasn't allowed to dive with new divers. Then I got a great divemaster to dive with a month later to re-install my confidence, work on navigation and am back to diving alot and loving it..... Thank you Bob.... You know who you are....
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