DeputyDan
Contributor
Your buddy did not want to dive with you anyhow. He didn't care about your concerns and was an Ahole!
Lesson learned - by you
Lesson learned - by you
Dive Buddy Incident
- Thread starter Comp.Air.Junkie
- Start date
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You don't start an air share so that the PSI in your tank looks good on the boat - Air share has its risks and is not designed for just making your air pressure look good or extending a dive when you are low. The dive is over before you are low. Especially with a strange buddy that seems to not be responding to your needs, has his octopus hose entangled in his shoulder strap, and also omitted the buddy check/practice of air share!
He was being an SOB (Same Ocean Buddy - being in the same ocean is what this moron thinks is being a good buddy).
You never ditch a buddy during the dive - unless he refused to ascend and your air has gone low - 500 psi at 15 feet is definitely getting low because **** happens and you need enough air in case something happens just before you ascend (as you mentioned).
This buddy you should have ditched once on the boat after the 1st dive. Optional whether to tell him why. Find another buddy team that is acceptable or conclude diving for the day. Bring your own buddy next time.
Like cockroaches, buddy problems don't come alone, they just pile up.
He was being an SOB (Same Ocean Buddy - being in the same ocean is what this moron thinks is being a good buddy).
You never ditch a buddy during the dive - unless he refused to ascend and your air has gone low - 500 psi at 15 feet is definitely getting low because **** happens and you need enough air in case something happens just before you ascend (as you mentioned).
This buddy you should have ditched once on the boat after the 1st dive. Optional whether to tell him why. Find another buddy team that is acceptable or conclude diving for the day. Bring your own buddy next time.
Like cockroaches, buddy problems don't come alone, they just pile up.
trucker girl
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Now I'm curious. Was the boat captain checking people's air after the dive? Why is #2 even a question? Like it's the badge of dishonor or something? I mean- I understand being embarrassed that you ran low on air, but if you'd have come up with 200 psi there's still air in your tank. I also would not want to share air unless I was... well, OOA means OOA.
And a dive buddy like that is no friend. Your safety should be important to you and your dive buddy. Not just you. Maybe I'm over-reacting here, but I can only go on what you've given. If you dive with a buddy like that, you're potentially diving alone.
And a dive buddy like that is no friend. Your safety should be important to you and your dive buddy. Not just you. Maybe I'm over-reacting here, but I can only go on what you've given. If you dive with a buddy like that, you're potentially diving alone.
When you first hooked up with this buddy, did you explain to him how new you were? Did you talk about your likely gas consumption? It sounds as though you did try to get him to agree to a buddy check, which he blew off, something which, in my experience, is sadly common. And he found out it was a mistake on his part, because he actually had something arranged incorrectly (which is ALSO very common, even among divers who are truly obsessive about their gear).
As far as the first dives goes, thumbs is thumbs. An "up" signal is the end of a dive, no questions asked. Someone who blows off the thumb is going to have a heart-to-heart with me after the dive, and unless there is some REALLY good reason (and I can't think of one right now), I'm not getting back in the water with that person. (I suppose not seeing or misinterpreting the signal might be things we could talk through and agree to do better next time, but simply feeling that you didn't have to go up yet is not a good answer.)
The airshare was unnecessary, but your buddy definitely needed to know how low on gas you were, so he would stay close if his gas was needed. You are safer executing your ascent on your own gas while you have it. Doing an air-sharing ascent is task-loading, and if you get separated from your buddy, you then have to find your own regulator while you've got nothing to breathe. It's not difficult or even stressful if you have practiced it, but when you're brand new, it's hard.
Once I got back on the boat, I would have talked to my buddy and told him, "Hey, I'm real new and I'm not happy when I get low on gas, because I'm not real sure how long it will last. That's why I asked to head back at 1000 psi. Are you willing to do that? If not, that's okay, maybe we should buddy up with other people." You can make it diplomatic, but also clear that your parameters are what they are.
BTW, if you were at 1000 psi at 90 feet, you were below the rock bottom for your dive, so you were absolutely right about the need to ascend at that point.
As far as the first dives goes, thumbs is thumbs. An "up" signal is the end of a dive, no questions asked. Someone who blows off the thumb is going to have a heart-to-heart with me after the dive, and unless there is some REALLY good reason (and I can't think of one right now), I'm not getting back in the water with that person. (I suppose not seeing or misinterpreting the signal might be things we could talk through and agree to do better next time, but simply feeling that you didn't have to go up yet is not a good answer.)
The airshare was unnecessary, but your buddy definitely needed to know how low on gas you were, so he would stay close if his gas was needed. You are safer executing your ascent on your own gas while you have it. Doing an air-sharing ascent is task-loading, and if you get separated from your buddy, you then have to find your own regulator while you've got nothing to breathe. It's not difficult or even stressful if you have practiced it, but when you're brand new, it's hard.
Once I got back on the boat, I would have talked to my buddy and told him, "Hey, I'm real new and I'm not happy when I get low on gas, because I'm not real sure how long it will last. That's why I asked to head back at 1000 psi. Are you willing to do that? If not, that's okay, maybe we should buddy up with other people." You can make it diplomatic, but also clear that your parameters are what they are.
BTW, if you were at 1000 psi at 90 feet, you were below the rock bottom for your dive, so you were absolutely right about the need to ascend at that point.
Finish the dive as planned if you can. If the other diver fails to respond to the thumb, then leave them and ascend per your planned rock bottom. Get back on the boat. Refuse to do another dive with that buddy. If you cannot find a preferable buddy, blow off the second dive. There will always be another dive another day. Do not dive with unsafe divers. Period.
I do not see that the latter necessarily follows from the former, but it is doubtful that the dive outfit would have done anything. The other diver paid his money, it spends fine, and the dive outfit doesn't care much whether he is compatible with you or not. Tell them or not, it is unlikely to make much of a difference either way.
Yes. Either find another buddy with whom you are more compatible, or request to be added as a third diver to another buddy pair, or don't dive. But don't dive with an unsafe diver. It's really pretty simple.
No. The thing about most idiots is that they don't think they have a problem. From their perspective you are the one with the problem. You choosing to get upset does not change this fundamental perspective. They will still be an idiot, but now they will be perplexed and ask stupid questions such as: "Jeez, whats YOUR problem? You don't have to throw a fit over it", etc. etc. because they truly fail to comprehend that you could die on a dive because they're a moron. Don't say anything to them. It's like complaining to a watermelon. Simply avoid them.
You are not over-reacting. A bad buddy can literally kill you. On the other hand, you're making the classic mistake of thinking that if you said something or did something differently that perhaps the person would change into a responsible buddy. While occasionally miracles happen, its safer to bet that nothing you say or do will change the perspective of an unsafe diver, because they will never see it from your point of view. If you wish to pursue futile causes, by all means have at it. But don't be astonished if they resent your implying they are less than safe. You will save yourself tremendous time and energy by simply refusing to dive with them once it becomes apparent that they're a moron.
Read through this thread: Imagine what was going through Michelle Davies' mind...
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/socal/27829-few-pieces-information-about-fatality-farnsworth.html
Here is some additional recommended reading, old but still relevant:
It's why I prefer to dive solo whenever possible. When I decide the dive is over it's over. If buddy wants to stay fine, I'm going up. When you indicated the dive was over for you it's over. period. Initiating an air share was overkill though. Unless they say they are going to slit your wrists and throw you overboard if you get back with a little less than 500 nothing will be said if the circumstances waranted a little extra on the stop, a delay due to a problem with gear or in this case your "buddy"(which really he was not, he was just someone on the same boat you got paired up with). And I've yet to be on a boat where they are checking tank pressures as you exit. What this is for usually is that they don't want empty tanks on board that could get water in them before the next fill. I was on one trip where two newbs ran out of air with their instructor. No biggie as far as the op was concerned as long as they knew they had been drained.
An air share is never an ideal setup with a new buddy unless it's an emergency. What you did was create two possible victims had the crap hit the fan. As others have said you had enough air. You'd have had more than enough if you followed the plan. Regardless of what he did you also ignored the dive plan. When you called the dive and he said basically screw off it was your responsibility to insure your safety. He did not care about it. Evidently he was not concerned with his air supply. He knew what he had left.
Now would be a good time to calculate your SAC and plan your dives based on that. Not on an instabuddy with a 1000 and we turn. I choose my buddies carefully when diving for fun. Students are another matter. With my usual buddies 1000 psi is alot of air. With students, when they have 1000psi it's time to start thinking seriously about going up.
An air share is never an ideal setup with a new buddy unless it's an emergency. What you did was create two possible victims had the crap hit the fan. As others have said you had enough air. You'd have had more than enough if you followed the plan. Regardless of what he did you also ignored the dive plan. When you called the dive and he said basically screw off it was your responsibility to insure your safety. He did not care about it. Evidently he was not concerned with his air supply. He knew what he had left.
Now would be a good time to calculate your SAC and plan your dives based on that. Not on an instabuddy with a 1000 and we turn. I choose my buddies carefully when diving for fun. Students are another matter. With my usual buddies 1000 psi is alot of air. With students, when they have 1000psi it's time to start thinking seriously about going up.
SnakeRiverPirate
Guest
I would have talked to him to ensure that he saw and blew off my signals, then I would never dive with him again. I am not going to endanger myself because some dipstick doesn't understand thumbs. It is my understanding that either member of a dive team can call a dive at any stage. Violating that rule leads to stress and potential panic by the other party. It is simply unforgivable in my book.
OP
Comp.Air.Junkie
Contributor
Thanks for all the great advice. This was only my third boat dive in the gulf (usually lakes and quarries). The other times I had great buddies. I really didn't know about coming on board with less than 500 was no big deal. I also didn't know that ascending solo if your buddy blows you off was a common practice. I guess like many have said YOU NEED TO WATCH AFTER YOURSELF! Thanks again.
bleeb
Contributor
Some charters are more conservative and hard-nosed about the 500 psi limit than others. It's not an unheard of practice. Depends on the boat/DM/captain.
OTOH, you never know if you might need a few minutes of air on the surface, for example if you have to unexpectedly duck to avoid getting run over by a boat.
Also, it's not unheard of to have a gauge read 200-300 psi high, and if you add the 100-200 psi intermediate pressure between first and second stage regs, that last 500 psi might not always be as available as you might think.
OTOH, you never know if you might need a few minutes of air on the surface, for example if you have to unexpectedly duck to avoid getting run over by a boat.
Also, it's not unheard of to have a gauge read 200-300 psi high, and if you add the 100-200 psi intermediate pressure between first and second stage regs, that last 500 psi might not always be as available as you might think.
MoxisPilot
Guest
I'm probably very much alone in this sentiment, but I won't buddy up with someone I don't trust. It's either my husband or someone I've gone diving with before (divemasters I know, friends I've observed, etc), because honestly? I don't want to wind up diving with someone who doesn't care about my safety; I wouldn't want someone diving with me if I didn't care about theirs.
I don't want to dive with somebody who can't follow directions, either. If I were to ignore the simplest of instructions, or blow off my buddy in the manner of your dive partner, I wouldn't expect them to want to dive with me a second time.
Personally, I think you handled the situation reasonably the first time, but it's your error for diving with him the second time. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...you get the point.
I don't want to dive with somebody who can't follow directions, either. If I were to ignore the simplest of instructions, or blow off my buddy in the manner of your dive partner, I wouldn't expect them to want to dive with me a second time.
Personally, I think you handled the situation reasonably the first time, but it's your error for diving with him the second time. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...you get the point.
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