Burke
Guest
gee, I don't know, how about we start with interviewing any recently certified Saudi Arabians in the country on expired student visas.
Dive Agencies Giving Student Records to the FBI - What do you think?
- Thread starter exnewwavedivers
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wannabe
Contributor
Then maybe FBI should generate a list of Saudis with (expired) visas and then go ask dive agencies/shops if any of them have been taking classes. -- That is a reasonable search in my book because they are using information they should already be investigating (other violations) rather than a blanket search of all recently certified divers?
DivePartner1
Contributor
Wannabe, I agree that police work should be more efficent that the a blind fishing expedition--especially since the FBI's position is that the bad guys are only thinking about scuba and haven't started yet (I am SO glad I decided to put off my under-water demo C-Card!).
Aside from the fact many fer-in-ners (such as Saudi's) are more allied to our cause then our own Tim McVeighs, Burke's may be one to something, but not in the way he wants. What if they take this list and cross reference it not only with the INS list but other troulbe-makers, say BATF's? What if they go for the NRA's list next? To the local firing ranges for their client records?
What was the poem by the German minister? "At first they came for the jews, and I said nothing because I am not a jew. . . . And then they came for me, and there was no left to complain."
Aside from the fact many fer-in-ners (such as Saudi's) are more allied to our cause then our own Tim McVeighs, Burke's may be one to something, but not in the way he wants. What if they take this list and cross reference it not only with the INS list but other troulbe-makers, say BATF's? What if they go for the NRA's list next? To the local firing ranges for their client records?
What was the poem by the German minister? "At first they came for the jews, and I said nothing because I am not a jew. . . . And then they came for me, and there was no left to complain."
danceswithoctopus
Guest
Anyone besides me bothered by the generalizing use of the label 'Saudi' in this context?
Scotty
Guest
If you have nothing to hide what should anyone worry about. I'd rather know they are doing something to protect our sorry asses than for them to sit on their asses and do nothing. Nothing great comes without a price and this is a small price to pay to be in the greatest country on earth.
Burke
Guest
I used the label Saudi just as an example because I recall that some of the terrorist where using fake saudi pasports, I could be wrong on that last part but it doesn't really matter, like I said it was just one example. Obviously the FBI would be looking for anyone suspicious, and there is a big difference between "I don't know where that lobster came from officer" kind of suspicious, and "I forgot to renew my student visa because I have never actualy been to school sense coming to America from afga.. uh Saudi Arabia, yeah, yeah thats the ticket I am from Saudi Arabia learning, um scuba diving and, um I did take some courses at a comunity college here, lets see, um bridge arcitichure, and chemistry, yeah I have a double major"
DivePartner1
Contributor
During the beheadings of the French Revolution: "Of course you are guilty, for it would be unjust to condemn the innocent." Singling out "Saudi's" or any other minority for sacrifice is not new, but these instances aren't exactly models for civic conduct.
Anyone who has unfettered faith in a justice system hasn't had to work it. Any experienced cop will tell: he'll get a lawyer if they come knocking at your door--especially if he hasn't 'done' anything. Trusting the system becasue you may think you don't have anything to hide is like always trusting your gear not to fail simply because gear is good and right and pure. Your gear, like the justice system, it's made by man and is subject to failure if not maintained properly.
Scuba lists are a small thing, but it's part of the slippery slope. What next? Church of Islam members? The JDL's? The DNC donor list? My scuba books (since divers are not watch-listed as terrorists)?
Anyone who has unfettered faith in a justice system hasn't had to work it. Any experienced cop will tell: he'll get a lawyer if they come knocking at your door--especially if he hasn't 'done' anything. Trusting the system becasue you may think you don't have anything to hide is like always trusting your gear not to fail simply because gear is good and right and pure. Your gear, like the justice system, it's made by man and is subject to failure if not maintained properly.
Scuba lists are a small thing, but it's part of the slippery slope. What next? Church of Islam members? The JDL's? The DNC donor list? My scuba books (since divers are not watch-listed as terrorists)?
danceswithoctopus
Guest
Scotty, you are soooo correct. I couldn't agree more: if there's nothing to hide, then why not operate within the guidelines established by the law? I don't want any agency to 'sit on their asses and do nothing'. I want them to get off their duffs and get those subpoenas and gather that information! That is a small price if ever I heard of one. There is no sense of ugency here. A subpoena can be obtained in an afternoon. And it protects the information that the investigating agency has obtained from future challenge.
Sloppy investigations lead to freed felons. Is that preferable to obtaining a subpoena? Think about it.
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