Disappointed and Horrified with the level of service provided by SunnyCove

[Zippsy]

<rant on>

BTW, the price for a common dive trip from Singapore to pretty decent diving around Aur or Tioman usually includes two way transport (3-4 hours each way), ferry or speed boat transfers (1.5 - 4 hours each way), all meals, accommodation, 6 dives, dive guides, tanks, and weights. All this costs about US$270 (about US$45/dive). Is there any other place in the world that you can get that for such low cost?? No wonder why you don't get first class service or product! Note also that tipping is unheard of on these trips.

Throw in an open water course and the above equation changes by one less ocean dive but includes all rental gear, the course book, testing, certification, theory classes, pool sessions (sadly, probably only one of each), pool rental, instructor's time (he/she also has to cover membership dues, insurance, their own course costs, transport, living expenses, etc), etc. Now the price jumps to an amazing US$380. Is there any other place in the world that you can get that???

Remember, we are talking about these prices for trips and courses from Singapore, one of the most expensive cities to live in the world.

Really, if you only pay those amounts and you still complain about anything, there is as much wrong with you as there is with the dive industry here! It's like going into Mercedes, paying $1,000 for a new car then complaining because there is no oil in the engine, no petrol in tank, the steering wheel is missing and the paint is peeling off.

</rant off>

 

[Centrals]

Ouch. Sometimes crap happens on dives - even to dive masters.

Absolutely!!!
A crappy dm demonstrating one of the stupid way of deploying a smb under water!!!

 

[Centrals]

<Really, if you only pay those amounts and you still complain about anything, there is as much wrong with you as there is with the dive industry here! It's like going into Mercedes, paying $1,000 for a new car then complaining because there is no oil in the engine, no petrol in tank, the steering wheel is missing and the paint is peeling off.

</rant off>

I hope next time you gone out for a cheap meal in Singapore, there is a cockroach in your soup. Extra protein for no extra cost and for sure you won't complaint.

 

[Zippsy]

I hope next time you gone out for a cheap meal in Singapore, there is a cockroach in your soup. Extra protein for no extra cost and for sure you won't complaint.

Why is that Centrals? If I were to pay $10 for a meal in Singapore, I would definitely look for a cockroach or other matter in it before I ate it. I would not be surprised if I did find something either. Why? Because $1 is far less than what what a meal really does cost. I am not so cheap as to expect to pay a fraction of the real price AND expect high quality too. Only an idiot would expect to get both.

 

[racerx_]

"Par" only means "average" and by definition a good portion of practitioners in any profession will perform more poorly than average, and a good number will also perform more expertly than average. Fifty percent of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class, right? It's up to consumers to select the product they purchase wisely, using more than the price of the product as a deciding factor. The expression "value for money" does not mean the same thing as "cheap"; it means "high quality at a fair price." Too many scuba students look for the cheapest course rather than finding the one that offers the best value for money.

But that's only part of the dynamic. Dive training is a teaching and learning partnership--if either part of that partnership performs below average, the result is bound to be a poorly prepared diver. As an instructor I have to say that I sometimes encounter student divers who believe that when they pay their course fee they are buying a certification, so they don't study, don't follow instructions, show up for dives unprepared in one way or another, etc. I personally sell training, not certifications. If a student doesn't come to class prepared, or comes to the boat hung over after partying all night, or violates the rules underwater, that student doesn't get certified. My courses take a little longer than "average," and I'm a little more demanding than the "average" instructor. But I do believe that my courses, and those conducted by other serious instructors, give good value for money even though they also cost more than "average."

Yeah Im with you on this one.. Thought I already agreed with you in the last post lol. Was just pointing out how I feel about *some* of our local instructors/operators. It's obviously not everyone and this forum is a great help in identifying good instruction.

 

[racerx_]

Zippsy- I don't think anyone is disputing the economics of it.. Like I said, they did it cheap and fast for me which at the time is what I needed. Not an ideal way to look for dive instruction, but I wasn't in an ideal situation.

I would say though that professionalism is as much about attitude as it is about price. Ya you get what you pay for, but I think ere are certain professional standards of instruction in diving that should be cultivated. They choose the price they charge so that's their business, but it'd be nice to raise the bar on some of these standards. It's not just instruction. Dive shops too.. Walked in to one at 4pm the other day, lights were off and too people there looked at me shocked like "what are you doing here?" so I asked if they were open.. To which they said "no" and stared at me haha.. So I asked when.. They said maybe later, 7-8pm and didn't look at me again. Doesn't seem like someone who's interested in divers, or the industry in general, nor will I ever walk in to that shop again. Others spend more time telling you how much more awesome they are than the other dive operators or why their equipment is so far superior to everything else.. Leaves a bit of a weird taste in your mouth

 

[Quero]

Yeah Im with you on this one.. Thought I already agreed with you in the last post lol. Was just pointing out how I feel about *some* of our local instructors/operators. It's obviously not everyone and this forum is a great help in identifying good instruction.

Yeah, you did agree. And it's not unique to Singapore, certainly, but just as certainly, it seems to be a national pastime among Singaporeans (and Malaysians) to see who can get whatever for the "cheapest" price. So it's a kind of a mindset that doesn't cultivate excellence, but rather only corner-cutting. I have never done it, but I know of operators who up their quoted prices when Singaporeans/Malaysians inquire so that they can later offer "discounts" that will take the prices down to the regular level. The customers are happy because they think they are getting a great deal, and the operators are happy because they are getting a fair price for their services. Go figure.

 

[Uli Kunkel]

Theres cheap price and terrible quality, and good value. I think this has been touched on before. I know excellent instructors who work for "value" dive centers, and I have met terrible instructors who work at expensive places. Its important to remember that the dollar value assigned to anything can sometimes be arbitrary in relation to its quality- however this is usually the exception.

 

[Quero]

Theres cheap price and terrible quality, and good value. I think this has been touched on before. I know excellent instructors who work for "value" dive centers, and I have met terrible instructors who work at expensive places. Its important to remember that the dollar value assigned to anything can sometimes be arbitrary in relation to its quality- however this is usually the exception.

Uli, you're right, of course. I have friends who are good instructors but who work at schools that force cost cutting on them, meaning that they cannot give the best of themselves to their students. They may be great instructors, but they cannot give great courses under those conditions.

For example, a school that only allows instructors to spend 3 (or even 4) hours in a pool with up to 8 students in a group, or that combines several groups into large classroom sessions where all the instructor does is read the powerpoint slides aloud, or that takes students on the minimum dive profile for a dive to count as an open water training dive (5 meters, 20 minutes) for each of the four open water dives isn't allowing any of its instructors to do a good job. But those are all ways to cut costs in order to reduce the course fees....

While it's possible to pay a lot and get a crappy course, it's virtually impossible to pay peanuts and get anything but a crappy course.

 

[FWADIVER]

it seems to be a national pastime among Singaporeans (and Malaysians) to see who can get whatever for the "cheapest" price.

there is even a word for it 'kiasu'. I remember watching a bit of Singaporean reality tv where they set up a booth and got people to line up for hours, and then they interviewed people in line. They had no idea what they were lining up for, but by joe they weren't going to miss out on the possibility of a freebie. Being married to a Malaysian I see this every time there is a dollar rack or bin at the store, she absolutely has to go digging thru it to see if there is something she wants.