DIRF completed, forum question...

[Capnsnott]

very cool, thanks...
Greg

 

[WJL]

Yes I plan to work on my skills. I accept my level of diving related to GUE. I am not bitter - I know where I stand and I'm taking the steps to improve. I understand I'm not chasing a cert. Now that I have taken the course I understand its not just about equipment. I would just like to know if anyone passes with a single & wetsuit. Most of the folks who passed were in doubles and drysuits with TONS of experience. I do lack experience which will come with time, I humbly accepted this fact. If I'm not headed in this equipment direction, I'm wondering if it would be futile to gain more experience, lock down my skills, only to fail due to a lack of twins & drysuit. I would hope not. Sometimes I just suspect that the ultimate goal of DIR (equipment wise) is Nitrox twins, drysuit and BP wings setup. Regardless, the DIR method has me convinced - I'm in it for the methodology. Just purchased downstreams today. Just looking down the road a bit. If I ultimately need twins and a drysuit, I will need to really re-think retaking DIRF next year. Working up to doubles will take me some time. I'm just mulling things over in my mind like, does passing DIRF mean your already at a level with doubles and a drysuit...these kinds of things. Thank you.

bmuise, you were in the class at Gilboa last weekend, right? I was one of the underwater video guys.

Don't get distracted by the doubles vs. singles issue - the real point of the class is to teach you the skills you need. There is no predisposition in favor of divers who show up to the class with a set of doubles, and there is no intent to herd people toward using doubles just for the sake of doing it.

Without question you can pass the class in an AL80 and a wetsuit. Demonstrating the right attitude, thought processes and skills are what earns you a "pass", not what equipment you have. Take what you were shown in the class, and practice with people who at least have also been through the class so you can get some realistic feedback. When you can do the skills, while keeping your bouyancy, while managing whatever equipment you and your team have, while being aware of your environment, while maintaining awareness of what is going on and has already happened, and while thinking through any issues that arise during the dive, then you will find that the class is a breeze. Because most people aren't taught these things until they get to the class, most people find the class hard. It's not realistic to expect to master the class requirements in one weekend, especially if you are trying to do them for the first time.

Don't start thinking that you need to be in doubles to be "DIR". I am sure that you already know that "certified" DIR divers, including the instructors, don't always dive in dry suits and doubles. You use what is appropriate for the dive you're doing. Just for example, in the picture gallery on Brando's web site, scubaguys.com you see Brandon and Scot in doubles and drysuits diving wrecks in the Great Lakes and caves, and in single tanks and wetsuits diving reefs in Florida.

If you're not pushing some safety issue, there's nothing about DIR that says you can't dive an AL 80 with a wetsuit. As was mentioned in the lecture on "rock bottom", doubles begin to be a necessity if you are diving deeper (like 100 feet) and in an environment where you can't necessarily head straight for the surface in an emergency. In that case, if you are managing your gas properly, you have little usable gas in a single tank, making doubles a more sound equipment choice. That was actually the only time in the course that the instructors mentioned an advantage to diving doubles. Of course, all the gas management issues associated with stages and doubles, aside from the basic rock bottom concept, are not really part of a fundamentals class, but are the subject of later GUE courses.

Since who passed and who didn't is discussed individually with each class member in private, I don't want to talk about that. However, I will say that your perceptions about who passed the class and who didn't are not correct.

 

[lragsac]

... Most of the folks who passed were in doubles and drysuits with TONS of experience. I do lack experience which will come with time, I humbly accepted this fact. If I'm not headed in this equipment direction, I'm wondering if it would be futile to gain more experience, lock down my skills, only to fail due to a lack of twins & drysuit. I would hope not. Sometimes I just suspect that the ultimate goal of DIR (equipment wise) is Nitrox twins, drysuit and BP wings setup...If I ultimately need twins and a drysuit, I will need to really re-think retaking DIRF next year. Working up to doubles will take me some time. I'm just mulling things over in my mind like, does passing DIRF mean your already at a level with doubles and a drysuit...these kinds of things. Thank you.

It is never futile to gain more experience and lock down your skills. "Failing" due to a *lack* of twins and a drysuit is a silly notion. All I'm trying to say is there is no correlation between passing DIRF and a particular configuration. You simply have to get comfortable executing the skills and developing team awareness in whatever configuration is appropriate for you. I do not believe that the ultimate goal of DIR is Nitrox twins, drysuit, etc. You said it yourself--you are embracing it not for the equipment per se, but for the methodology. Precisely. DIR is about gaining a set of tools and a mindset and set of best practices which can be applied to *any* type of diving (except solo of course), whether it be overhead environment, drysuit, doubles, or warm water wetsuit diving with a single al80. You have the right attitude. Don't get drawn off track just because you see everyone else taking the class in doubles and a drysuit. Enjoy the journey, enjoy the ride, where ever it may take you.

 

[FFMDiver]

I agree with these comments and thank you for the response.
I think I need to be more clear on the question I am asking.
It is obvious that you simply dont show up with a drysuit and twins to pass DIR...thats just insulting peoples intelligence. What I am trying to say is that people who have managed a certain proficiency with a dry suit and twins have had years of experience in the water to get to this level. When a majority of these folks show up for class it makes one with a single wonder...gee, do I have the water experience needed to pass such a class.

Now lets look at this statistically speaking - I would bet that there is a significant correlation between divers with doubles who pass DIR courses as compared to divers with singles. Now, having made such a statement, I have absolutely no data to run a correlation to back up such a hypothesis up. BUT, if I had to put money on it, I would say yes. Damn, I smell a dissertation here...does GUE publish thier stats??

It is never futile to gain more experience and lock down your skills. "Failing" due to a *lack* of twins and a drysuit is a silly notion. All I'm trying to say is there is no correlation between passing DIRF and a particular configuration. You simply have to get comfortable executing the skills and developing team awareness in whatever configuration is appropriate for you. I do not believe that the ultimate goal of DIR is Nitrox twins, drysuit, etc. You said it yourself--you are embracing it not for the equipment per se, but for the methodology. Precisely. DIR is about gaining a set of tools and a mindset and set of best practices which can be applied to *any* type of diving (except solo of course), whether it be overhead environment, drysuit, doubles, or warm water wetsuit diving with a single al80. You have the right attitude. Don't get drawn off track just because you see everyone else taking the class in doubles and a drysuit. Enjoy the journey, enjoy the ride, where ever it may take you.

 

[MarcHall]

It is never futile to gain more experience and lock down your skills. "Failing" due to a *lack* of twins and a drysuit is a silly notion. All I'm trying to say is there is no correlation between passing DIRF and a particular configuration. You simply have to get comfortable executing the skills and developing team awareness in whatever configuration is appropriate for you. I do not believe that the ultimate goal of DIR is Nitrox twins, drysuit, etc. You said it yourself--you are embracing it not for the equipment per se, but for the methodology. Precisely. DIR is about gaining a set of tools and a mindset and set of best practices which can be applied to *any* type of diving (except solo of course), whether it be overhead environment, drysuit, doubles, or warm water wetsuit diving with a single al80. You have the right attitude. Don't get drawn off track just because you see everyone else taking the class in doubles and a drysuit. Enjoy the journey, enjoy the ride, where ever it may take you.

Lauren, Excellent Post.

Addressing some of the other issues in this thread.

It is pretty common knowledge that a GUE OW course is in development. If you read the GUE standards that are downloadable from the GUE website in pdf format you will see that an a Recreational Diver Course is outlined but not yet defined.

I assume that is very likely that someone who completes the GUE Recreational Diver course will have been introduced to the skills presented in DIR-F and will have been introduced to proper ascent procedures for recreational dives.

Regards

Marc Hall
www.enjoythedive.com

 

[FFMDiver]

...one more note. I understand GUE gets slammed a lot on this board and they have made themselves vulnerable by having a presence on the scuba forum. I am in no way marginalizing the DIRF experience. I consider myself lucky to have been around world class divers. I formally thank these instructors who took the time and effort to fly out to our quarry and put up with our inabilities. They deserve our respect. At the same time, it is always a good idea to discuss issues that arise after any scuba experience to give others an idea of what perceptions were like.

I agree with these comments and thank you for the response.
I think I need to be more clear on the question I am asking.
It is obvious that you simply dont show up with a drysuit and twins to pass DIR...thats just insulting peoples intelligence. What I am trying to say is that people who have managed a certain proficiency with a dry suit and twins have had years of experience in the water to get to this level. When a majority of these folks show up for class it makes one with a single wonder...gee, do I have the water experience needed to pass such a class.

Now lets look at this statistically speaking - I would bet that there is a significant correlation between divers with doubles who pass DIR courses as compared to divers with singles. Now, having made such a statement, I have absolutely no data to run a correlation to back up such a hypothesis up. BUT, if I had to put money on it, I would say yes. Damn, I smell a dissertation here...does GUE publish thier stats??

 

[FreeFloat]

I assume that is very likely that someone who completes the GUE Recreational Diver course will have been introduced to the skills presented in DIR-F and will have been introduced to proper ascent procedures for recreational dives.

In your opinion, are ascents the skill that most DIR candidates have the most trouble with?

 

[lragsac]

I agree with these comments and thank you for the response.
I think I need to be more clear on the question I am asking.
It is obvious that you simply dont show up with a drysuit and twins to pass DIR...thats just insulting peoples intelligence. What I am trying to say is that people who have managed a certain proficiency with a dry suit and twins have had years of experience in the water to get to this level. When a majority of these folks show up for class it makes one with a single wonder...gee, do I have the water experience needed to pass such a class.

Now lets look at this statistically speaking - I would bet that there is a significant correlation between divers with doubles who pass DIR courses as compared to divers with singles. Now, having made such a statement, I have absolutely no data to run a correlation to back up such a hypothesis up. BUT, if I had to put money on it, I would say yes. Damn, I smell a dissertation here...does GUE publish thier stats??

Ah, statistics...that gets my attention every time. It would be interesting to know if there were indeed a statistically significant correlation. I do understand the question you are posing. However, to take this out of the realm of the scientifically measurable and put it back down "on the ground" let me offer a few of my own observations (disclaimer: entirely anecdotal evidence). One thing I have seen (and experienced directly) is that GUE instructors tend to raise the bar for those divers who come to class and demonstrate a higher baseline of experience and skill. If you show up with a doubles configuration you're going to have to demonstrate that you can deal with some of the extra requirements that configuration entails (eg. more complex failure scenarios than one would encounter with a single tank). In fact, GUE instructors' ability to assess divers and adjust accordingly has always impressed me. So, even though you are in the class alongside these experienced doubles divers, they are there to learn and improve, too, and with the GUE instructors I have come into contact with at least, most of these divers will be challenged by the class. When I took my DIR-F a couple of years ago (before it was pass/fail) there were 3 instructors in my class and one guy who had c-cards (including some tech-oriented ones) out the whazoo and we all got our butts kicked, just on different levels.

 

[MikeFerrara]

And you know why Mike? Because its not NECESSARY. In Utopia City, where everyone maintains perfect trim, buoyancy and does nothing on dives except practice drills, your vision of diving is true.
In the real world, where most divers dive just to have fun, it isn't, and most likely never will be. And, aside from the fact that most divers can't dive well, they are not dropping like flies because they haven't had a DirF class.

Some of us are better divers because we cared about how we dove and wanted to be better. We are the minority, as most just want to have fun.
Untill the public as a whole decides to pay many times more for basic scuba instruction, devote a large percentage of their dive time to skills and learning, and actually **work** at being better, what you see is what you're gonna get.

Your visions of Utopia are nice, but they don't meet reality. THAT'S why a DirF and OW class are not the same.

MD

Sorry, just realized what forum we're in. I don't pay that much attention most of the time. Feel free to edit/move this if appropriate, but I think the post had moved out of DIR range anyway.

Marc Hall answered this best in another thread so I'll just quote him.

The skills presented in the DIR-F course could and should be taught in an OW course. When I teach OW courses all of the skills presented in DIR-F are taught.

It has nothing to do with utopia, It's just how some people dive and teach diving. I don't know whether or not you've taken a DIRF but it sounds like there's some fundimental that you're missing.

 

[MikeFerrara]

PS, Mike, I see your point as to the skills portion. But from what I can tell, the how it's taught is the kicker.

It's very much how it's taught.

Most AOW students don't care how good they look or feel, I have fights with my dad all the time about skills.

Students know and do what they see and what they're taught. It's up to the instructor to set the standards and the example not to lower his to match others.

He thinks I'm wasting my time even trying to learn more. That's the general rule of thumb from what I can tell.

Yess well... do what you allways did and you get what you always got

Figure out how you can make someone see that doing skills on the bottom is bad and you may be able to get people to care more. Just my .00002 worth (I'm cheap).

In my experience students do it the way you teach it and when they are hovering effortlessly at the safety stop (or two or three) while watching the opther classes flounder around and strugling they realize that one is definately more fun that the other.

Work smarter not harder.