DIRF book

[roakey]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
I give up! I have argued all along that training standards are not the problem and I still believe that.

I'll assume that this was aimed at me.

How about I rephrase it that as "The vast majority of PADI, SSI, etc. instructors I have observed/known teach students incorrectly."

Of course, the fact that so many instructors become instructors through these agencies by teaching incorrect skills still makes the point that there's a systemic problem with the mainstream SCUBA industry.

Roak

 

[O-ring]

...from our class. Marc and JJ shot some footage (I think they were trying to boost our morale after day 1) of a couple OW classes and some other divers that were in the background and near the platforms during our class.

It was quite a stark contrast when compared to what the GUE guys were trying to teach us.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

JBD,

Have you thought about the NOAA II manual? As far as diving laws and physics and physiology, no one tops this book. It's a pricy book though. If your looking for underwater techniques such as bouyancy techniques and special kicks for special circumstances then this book may not be for you. But it has just about everything else.

 

[sheck33]

Originally posted by madmole
I've been diving 26 years and done 2700+ dives. I though I had it pretty well sussed. BUT I read "Fundamantals" a couple of years ago and had a long look at my kit afterwards. I now dive a long hose in open water for example. I dont agree with ALL they Command but some of it makes very good sense

Some is plain daft. For example they claim that theirs is the ONLY way to dive. Well for a start if they tried "cave" diving in England they'ed come pretty unstuck. "Cavern" diving their config may be good for, but for a 6 hour carry to dive in a 22 cm high passage it would be a joke. Long hose is a no-no for UK caves cos you dive solo (you cant physically fit a buddy in most sumps), also where are their helmets (oh they dont actually cave do they)

Get the book, read, learn and come to your own conclusions based on your circumstances. For example I use a few too many D rings and have 2 contents guages (one digital with beepers and one good old fashioned oil filled. Dont trust electrics but the display is much better than a standard SPG). I carry a dayglo hood, 2 reels, a red and yellow SMB, net cutters, a extending flag and 3 knifes (The surface is rough in the UK and I want the boat to find me). Having had to use a knife in earnest quite a few times, I laugh at the little thing GI carries. For big heavy trawler nets you need a good 10" job. I also carry and use a buddy line, we dont have US cave VIS in the UK waters. I also carry a small perspex tube filled with distilled water so I can read my guages in ZERO viz

DIR have some very very good ideas (although most were borrowed from others) but they are not the difinative method

GUE does not claim that their way is the ONLY way. They claim that their way is the BETTER way in MOST diving situations. Dont be mislead by some 'DIR' divers that are arrogant and call everybody else 'strokes', very annoying term as far as i am concerned. Dont be discouraged by the way some divers try to get the message across, try to focus on the message itself.
Of course the DIR way is a compilation and extension of techniques already known, the sport developes and we learn from other peoples mistakes.

 

[MikeFerrara]

roakey,

In my post I was saying that I agree with you and considering the things I have been seeing in the water I'm loosing groung on which to stand. That is why I give up. There is no need to rephrase anything. Too many recreational instructors are missing the mark. Ok they're not even on the paper.

The sad part is they don't know there is a problem.

 

[O-ring]

If you look at the 2002 Dan report:

1. Close to 50% of fatal diving accidents involved a buoyancy problem

2. Close to 50% of diving injuries involved a buoyancy problem

3. Close to 25% of diving injuries involved a rapid ascent problem (linked to poor buoyancy??).

 

[jbd]

bring up go to the crux of the problem--bouyancy control. This is something that takes time to develope. I think Mike Ferrara is on the correct path in lengthening his OW classes. This gives his students more time to form the foundations of bouyancy control skills, thus enhancing their safety. I think Mike Ferrara and Roakey have made a good arguement that in too many cases the instructors have not held the bar high enough over the years and we have this ongoing cycle of poor and deteriorating techniques being taught.

Its my understanding(and I may well be wrong) that the DIR Fundamentals class was created to address the shortcomings of new Tech 1 and or Cave 1 students. Maybe this realization of shortcomings will break this cycle that Roakey has mentioned on several occasions.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

What is the solution for LDS that can't take the time in class because of other LDS. The other shop takes 4-5 nights or two weekends to teach O/W. I would like to extend our class and we probably will but not like I would like. I would love to have an 8 night class or 9 nights but then Innerspace would go under really quick. No one on this planet would sign up for an 8 night class over a 4-5 night class.
I have combated this to a minor degree by telling people "The class will probably be 5 nights but if it takes extra nights there will be NO additional charge" This seems to work, like I said to a minor degree. I try to give everyone lots of free time to work on Bouyancy. However; Anyone that is reading this should realize bouyancy won't come in the class. No matter if it's 8 nights. That comes with time and practice...Lot's of practice. I tell everyone to give themselves 20 good dives before the bouancy really starts to come around.
As far as that DIR Stuff. I have head the fanatics & they need there own planet to live on in there own little perfect world. Mike F and especially Sheck33 are on track though. Thanks for being open minded.

 

[O-ring]

bouyancy won't come in the class. No matter if it's 8 nights. That comes with time and practice...Lot's of practice.

Good point...I don't think many OW instructors stress after-class practice too much. I know nobody told me to go home and practice buoyancy stuff before I jumped off a dive boat in the Caribbean.

As far as that DIR Stuff. I have head the fanatics & they need there own planet to live on in there own little perfect world.

I don't think there are too many fanatics on this list. Maybe the industry will come around and stop maintaining sub-par training as the status quo. That would be easier than moving all the DIR fanatics to another planet

 

[MikeFerrara]

bengalsmgtsucks,
You are right, you can't just have a long expensive class that tries to turn out expert divers. I don't have all the answers but in seeing how people dive and looking at how we teach there are some obviouse deficiencies. Some are easily fixed. One thing that we have done is to make sure students know what good diving looks like before they finish the class. They need to know what to practice. beyond that they need to choose. Many classes don't get them that far. I am also considering an OW extension sort of class. Get them certified and get a few dives under their belt then go rehash and refine it all. To do it within existing standards (in our case PADI) one could use the Scuba Review/ppb standards. That takes care of insurance and paper work issues.

So the whole idea looks like this...OW class of reasonable length and cost. In this course everything is put on the table and of course includes lots of obvious improvements over what most schools teach. Then for those who are interested enough you provide the extension as described above. Now the ones who want it can buy it. The ones who are happy going to Cozumel and crawling on the bottom can do so but are informed about the choice they have made. After all what is DIRF? It's a workshop aimed at bringing open water skills up to par. I don't believe I need to take on a third agency to teach that. I think the existing standards provide the tools, it's the application that's lacking.

It does not need to be called DIR. However, JJ and others in the Halcyon/GUE crowd are more than willing to discuss exactly these kinds of training issues. After all it does help sell good equipment. To be honest, some of the changes we have made have been a natural evolution. others, I was just smart enough to steal. GUE will help you steal anything except names like "DIR".

Much of it is in the little things like getting students off the bottom and keeping them off. I demonstrate lots of propulsion techniques including a flutter kick but beyond a demonstration students never see me or staff use it. When we first start out in the pool doing simple things like reg clearing and mask clearing, I don't sit on the bottom, I hover horizantal. The amazing thing is that some students will imitate your behavior on their own. Why force then to sit on the bottom. I stopped using the old faded bc in the pool. I use a bp and wing, h-valve and 7 ft primary. The clorine will trash the wing but I have more. My DM's and DMC's look like divers in the water.

As a certified diver the first time I had a mask knocked off was a real education. I was midwater on a knight dive. I had all kinds of trouble and damn near blew my lungs out trying to clear my mask while I was shooting up. My wife and I then went out and practiced mask removal and replacement while hovering along a wall. It was not hard but we had to train ourselves. Why not tell students that when it happens for real they will not be sitting on the bottom? Why not tell them that the same thing that caused the lost mask may cause a lost reg? Why not practice both at the same time midwater? Thats how it will happen for real. PADI dictates, to some extent(which module), the order that skills are introduced but they also recomend including time for fun and practice. They do not dictate haw you have fun and practice.

I have heard many instructors comment that (in open water) it is mandatory that you keep an OW class swimming quickly because the moment you stop they will sink to the bottom or shoot to the surface. What kind of horse sh## is that? When I take students on a tour I move very very slowly and stop often. This forces them to be neutral. I have students that after 4 OW dives have better buoyancy control than people who have been diving for years. If a diver can't stay along side their buddy at that snails pace they don't get a card. Instead they get an invitation to dive with me some more.

This is all just my take on it but I have students who come into the store after a weekend dive and tell me about the instructor or DM they saw blowing out the vis because of awfull trim and finning technique. They thank me for being their instructor. They often thank me with beer, apple pie and other little goodies.
Mike