Direction needed

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I want to thank everyone who has and will offer help and advice :D i have no experience with doubles or real gas management so training in those areas I am thinking is were i should start. I am not married to TDI but since i had taken there courses before its what i know. As far as GUE I currently dive with a Trans Pac so they wont even let me take the course if i wanted to.
 
I would also highly recommend either GUE Fundamentals or TDI Intro to Tech as a first step. If you master the higher standard of buoyancy and trim, the propulsion techniques, get familiar with the equipment and emergency procedures, and get an idea of working as a team, your subsequent classes will be less stressful, and you will get a great deal more out of them.
 
...Seriously now, this is not the way to learn these things, IMO. Take an intro to tech class, like DIRF or one recommended above. V-Planner is a tool for those already trained.

In several tech courses that I know of, this subscription is one of the first steps.

[edited by moderator]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would also highly recommend either GUE Fundamentals or TDI Intro to Tech as a first step. If you master the higher standard of buoyancy and trim, the propulsion techniques...

Ah yes, propulsion technique(s):

Two clicks makes the X-Scooter DPV go faster.

One click makes it go slower.

5 variable speeds.

And keep your fins up and your knees bent at all times so as NOT to stir up the silt.

Great propulsion techniques.:)
 
In several tech courses that I know of, this subscription is one of the first steps.
Odd that you were trained that way, you'd think instructors would explain some pro's and cons of the various software and allow the now educated student to make a decision as to what deco software he/she believes is best for their needs, or maybe they don't even need one at all (printed tables/ratio deco/plugging formulas into excel).

Unfortunately GUE has always been trying to sell Halcyon stuff.
Wrong. I've been trying to setup a GUE-F course and NEVER has anyone mentioned halcyon products are required.
 
Ah yes, propulsion technique(s):

Two clicks makes the X-Scooter DPV go faster.

One click makes it go slower.

5 variable speeds.

And keep your fins up and your knees bent at all times so as NOT to stir up the silt.

Great propulsion techniques.:)


Once again confusing tools and techniques...
 
Odd that you were trained that way, you'd think instructors would explain some pro's and cons of the various software and allow the now educated student to make a decision as to what deco software he/she believes is best for their needs, or maybe they don't even need one at all (printed tables/ratio deco/plugging formulas into excel).

Odd that - thats what every course ive done and everyone i know has had. An in depth discussion on the models, the programs, the pros and cons and the student is free to make their own mind up.

Then again we know from elsewhere nereas hasnt actually got a clue and wont ever respond to the questions many people ask him (google isnt infallible). He is in fact unaware that anything other than V-Planner exists.
Id love to know what you do to subscribe to it - i use it here (along with decoplanner) but obviously im missing out on some fantastic extra thing.

THIS POST EDITED BY A MODERATOR AS NEREAS IS BEYOND CRITICISM AND IMMUNE FROM HAVING TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS
 
Last edited:
:banghead: :focus: :hijack:

OK so i want to thank the helpful people and say to everyone else geez didn't mean to create a stir
 
Some of the technical divers you will run into have large egos. In some cases it is a concerted effort to make up for a lack of skills, experience or judgement - in some cases all three - in other cases it is just part of the mindset of people who do things like technical diving and is pretty harmless.

In my experience, the quiet ones who feel no particular need to flaunt or brag about their abilities tend to be the competent ones, listen to them when they speak and ignore the rest.

The other thing you have probably picked up on is that some technical divers can be very dogmatic regarding agency and certain procedures. In my experiece, the more experience a diver gets the less dogmatic he or she is - if they continue to do something or believe something it is because they can back it up with direct experience rather than on a indirect authoritatian source . Taht terned form dogma to experience holds for GUE trained divers as there really is no substitute for experience and the judgment that comes from the seasoning that occurs over a thousand dives or so. And after 1000 dives or so where you got your initial certs is mostly meanigless.

Sadly, you'll have to get used to some caustic comments now and then, especially on-line where people tend to say things in a manner they would not use in person. Mods can't be everywhere all the time. But please don't get the wrong impression, the tech community as a whole is not as egotistical, childish or contentious as it appeared here in this thread.

Staying with TDI is fine. There are those that like GUE and those that don't and you can be DIR without being GUE - DIR came along long before GUE came along and tried to institutionalize it, but some of the more zealous GUE types forget that to annoyance of all including the other 95% of the GUE trained divers who are nice normal people.

END is one of the bigger areas of contention between the GUE and non GUE crowd. Divers vary in temrs of their congnitve resources and their ability to adapt or deal with nitrogen narcoisis and individual divers vary from dive to dive but in general, from a non GUE perspectiove, an END deeper than 100' is not automatically unsafe and I am personally fine diving to 150' under the right conditions on a suitable nitrox mix and I generally regard dives in the 100-130 ft range to be a monumental waste of helium unless the dive is incredibly demanding. 30/30 is just not in my future, but on the other hand I am fine with other divers who may see the need to use it.

Intro to tech is fine - if you need it -and with your fairly small number of dives, the odds are very good that you would learn a lot from it. I am a bit old school and back in the day, you could not buy tech training unless you had at least 100 dives and at least 25 of those were below 100'. It more or less put the burden for Intro to Tech type skills on the diver who acquired them most often through a mentoring arrangement with a more expereinced diver.

Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures are usually taken together and both in combination certify you to dive to 150' on air or nitrox mixes and to use multiple deco gasses up to and including 100% O2. Many TDI trained divers tend to use 50% Nitrox and 100% O2 for deco.

TDI also offers an Extended Range course that I think most people now combine with trimix on the last two dives. This TDI verion of normoxic trimix certifies the diver to 200' on normoxic trimix and the advanced trimix class deals with hypoxic mixes to 300'.

The idea behind a "deep air" Extrended Range approach to basic trimix is that it lets you make an informed decision about the depths and conditions where you feel trimix is essential to a safe and successful dive. I like that a lot better than a rigid dogmatic approach to END.

The suggestion that V-Planner is only a tool for those who are trained is well intentioned but misguided. How exactly is a new diver supposed to have an intelligent discussion of various deco models and profiles in a class unless they have beee exposed to them previously, played around with them and had time to process the information?

What is also implied in saying you should not mess with V-planner is that you will use it to do something stupid by substuting a familiarity with deco tables and software for real deco procedures training. If a diver is really that stupid, denying them access to V-Planner is not going to save them from their destiny with the grim reaper anyway.

I like V-planner, I also like Palm VPM (which is a VPM-A software model designed for use on a Palm platform, and I like DPlan which is a bubble gradient model also designed for use on a Palm. A Palm is a lot easier to carry around and use on a dive boat than a lap top.

My advice is to get your hands on a variety of software, deco tables and books on deco theory so that you are fully familiar with what is out there, the various options and the pros and cons before you take a deco procedures class. That will prevent you from ending up in a class where, for example, the instructor still feels the US Navy tables, V-Planner or any other single source is the greatest and teaches you little else. Having an open mind is a good thing and an excellent survival skill in technical diving so its a good idea to cultivate that early on to ensure you continue learning throughout your career.
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

Back
Top Bottom