Dir, utd, wtf?

[netmage]

T, have you kept your GUE card(s?) current/active?

Funny thing, I passed Fundies w/ a tech qual, they never mailed me the card. I emailed the head office to follow up a few times, and it never went anywhere.

For me, the class was more for the material and a self evaluation. Obviously my training agency choices and implementations have diverged significantly since - both my OC tech instructors were heavily influenced by David Rhea. But allot of the core fundamentals are still a staple in my diving.

 

[rjack321]

Richard, thanks for commenting.

VPM-B+2 requires 10min @ 20ft.

Buhl 20/85 GF requires 1min @ 30ft and 11min @ 20ft

Almost triple the deco seems a bit steep for me, but I do understand that these methods aren't designed to exactly mirror each other. Seems to me that the answer I received from an instructor wasn't a good one. It's like asking how to dive a SM cave DIR and getting told to bring a shovel...sometimes the answer is this system wasn't designed for the dive. I'm OK with that, and will modify my diving as needed, but I don't like an answer that comes out of well....you know where ;-)

Just out of curiousity what do the other conservatism settings yield for O2 time?

If you use GUE's/NOAA 32% table with an MDL of 60mins at 70ft but still using the "time over" methods you'll basically get 5 mins less O2 time. So 16mins @ 20ft and 5 up.

To me the "right" answer is the one that gets you out of the water feeling fine on the long drive home. Never done this dive so honestly I don't know more that its probably somewhere between 10mins and ~30mins on O2.

Less than 10mins is very likely going to be a sleepy ride.

 

[ucfdiver]

Just out of curiousity what do the other conservatism settings yield for O2 time?

If you use GUE's/NOAA 32% table with an MDL of 60mins at 70ft but still using the "time over" methods you'll basically get 5 mins less O2 time. So 16mins @ 20ft and 5 up.

To me the "right" answer is the one that gets you out of the water feeling fine on the long drive home. Never done this dive so honestly I don't know more that its probably somewhere between 10mins and ~30mins on O2.

Less than 10mins is very likely going to be a sleepy ride.

I've done 10min + 5min ascent and felt fine getting out of the water. I'm also 22, low body fat, hydrate like crazy before a dive, etc. As you and I have discussed before, I think the schedule is lots less important than the physical factors that are in place before getting in the water. I'd hate to suggest the general public do that, but then again every dive's an experiment.

 

[Slamfire]

Automatic - no... You have to demonstrate a minimum amount of activity at your highest training level, I wold also assume for both cave and deco if applicable. I believe the requirement is 25 dives over the three year period - but I could be wrong. The point is that if you hang up your fins for an extended period of time, you are no longer qualified to perform at those levels. And the philosophy requires you to "do the right thing" and prepare yourself mentally and physically to perform the dives safely. It's my understanding you simply have to submit your log book to your instructor and pay the admin fee.

Sorry to hear that. Now, what would be the benefit of paying renewal fees? If it is seen as voluntarily contributing to an organization akin to your beliefs (a la DAN), great, but if it is seen as an obligation that enables you to safely dive I just think you may be better off buying this:

 

[rjack321]

I've done 10min + 5min ascent and felt fine getting out of the water. I'm also 22, low body fat, hydrate like crazy before a dive, etc. As you and I have discussed before, I think the schedule is lots less important than the physical factors that are in place before getting in the water. I'd hate to suggest the general public do that, but then again every dive's an experiment.

I've done a couple moderately aggressive 32% dives in JB that maybe you can relate to. 2nd dive of the day, 2hr SI, 50mins at 90ft kinda things with 5mins @ 20ft and 5 up.

I was a bit sleepy, but then again I'm old enough to be your father :baby:

 

[gsk3]

Sorry to hear that. Now, what would be the benefit of paying renewal fees? If it is seen as voluntarily contributing to an organization akin to your beliefs (a la DAN), great, but if it is seen as an obligation that enables you to safely dive I just think you may be better off buying this:

Looks like it's $30. A little high for some paperwork, but they have to print a new card, and they're hardly getting rich off this.

I know friends who were certified OW a few years back, haven't dove since, and have no qualms about just hopping in on their next vacation. Given that's the alternative, I'll cough up the $10/year.

 

[Gombessa]

People have been endlessly complaining about certifications-in-perpetuity, how someone who can get certified in 1975, never touch the water again, and the pull out their card in 2010 and claim to be perfectly safe and capable. Now, when an agency implements a minimal process to make people think about their level of preparedness and qualification (for most certs it merely requires filling out an online form and submitting the nominal fee), they get jumped on for trying to get rich off of a $10 a year scam.

Talk about your classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

 

[Slamfire]

First of all I can't complain because I am not renewing any C-cards. The point I am contending is not the need to keep current with your skills. Of course I am all for that. I am contending the need to perpetually be renewing/validating your right to do scuba with some bureaucratic process. Non-expiring c-cards tell you that at the time of certification the holder complied with the certification process -- nothing more. That is why it is normal procedures for charters to check up on your log and ask you when you did your last dive. Now, 25 dives over a 3 year period is not a very stringent standard, so I would even question the effectiveness of the expiry process to enforce recency in skills.

There are many options, formal and informal, for refreshing skills after a long dry period. Adding an additional bureaucratic step is just not optimal. But hey, it's your organization. If you feel happy contributing to it in this way and under this process, more power to you. If I ruffled some feathers because I come here as an outsider and vocalize my opinion on this matter, then I am sorry you feel that way. This is a public forum and as such I thought input from outsiders was allowed.

 

[TSandM]

I like the expiring certification thing, myself, and I don't mind paying the fee. Although I'll have to scratch my head a bit to decide whether it's worth renewing my GUE C1 card when I'm Full Cave from another agency

But at least if you dive with someone who has a current card, you know they have SOME current experience. (Or fake a good logbook . . . )

 

[lamont]

i went cave diving (a whole trip) with someone who had a NACD(?) full cave cert from JJ from before GUE existed who had been out of the water for years and it turned out fine.