Dir, utd, wtf?

[elan]

The thing that spawned question 2, is that I'll soon be heading back to the San Francisco Bay Area, and have been trying to find buddies to expand on my Tech experience. Some friendly DIR types said they'd be happy to dive with me, but I was wondering how that could be possible as I'm not Trimix certified and I imagine we'd be in the range where DIR calls for Trimix. I didn't understand how they could dive with a non-DIR diver with a different configuration and probably different methods (and certainly not the training).

It would be interesting to hear that too... I have never seen anyone doing tech dives in a mixed group here... I believe it is more difficult to do it on the tech level. Even diving in a mixed 32 - air group is less convenient

 

[Slamfire]

I've never been able to find AG's final response to George. The link that's supposed to have AG's response (post #13 in the finsonline thread I referenced above) is broken. It feels like I saw most of the movie but never go to see the conclusion. Does anybody know where AG's final response would be?

 

[elan]

I believe NAUI Tech programs follow the DIR as well

 

[coldsmoke]

I wasn't intentionally being aloof. Much of the system is in the details and it's really hard to convey with short bytes on the internet.

Of course, and as usual, TSandM does a much better job of saying what I tried to.

I'd recommend you to the DIR forum, but there's more mis-information in there than at your LDS.:cool2:

Hunter

I figured that someone who dives DIR might be able to explain on the interweb. I understand that the agencies have high standards, emphasis on technique mastery, etc. I'm looking for an explanation (I can learn by reading).

 

[Slamfire]

I believe NAUI Tech programs follow the DIR as well

After GUE but before starting UTD AG worked for NAUI, didn't he?

 

[elan]

After GUE but before starting UTD AG worked for NAUI, didn't he?

I think so too... I had this info on the back on the mind, If I'm not mistaken it was him who created the program for NAUI

 

[Ben_ca]

UTD and GUE are a lot more in commonalities than differences. In the real world here in the SF Bay area we all get along and dive together. I don't think the same can be said about the internet diving world...

Rik let me know when you get settled in and are ready to dive... I'll introduce you to our local diving scene.

 

[PfcAJ]

I believe NAUI Tech programs follow the DIR as well

The equipment is similar, but it stops there. Naui's gases are wonkey (26/17 is one of them if I recall correctly) and I'm not a fan of the cave curriculum. I took Cave 1 in 2006 (I think) only to get schooled in fundamentals and GUE C1 later on.

One of my biggest issues with UTD is the (over)emphasis on ratio deco and not marking bottom stages. I've posted elsewhere about why I feel the way I do, so no need to get into it here.

AG got the boot from GUE, then NAUI, and finally just started his own (for profit) company. I'm just not all about that, ymmv.

 

[ucfdiver]

AG got the boot from GUE, then NAUI, and finally just started his own (for profit) company. I'm just not all about that, ymmv.

It's almost scary reading what George said years ago, and looking where we are today. UTD Gear, dozens of courses, pushing crossovers, etc.

At first I thought breaking courses up into bite sized pieces would be a good idea, but it seems to be getting a bit extreme.

The ratio deco seems to be taken too far for my taste as well. I asked how UTD would handle this-

Could someone please review how they would use ratio deco for a long shallow dive? Let's say 120min with an average depth of 70ft on 32% with o2 as the only deco gas.

Here's the instructor response-

James,

Again a fairly extreme example but here is a break-down:

NDL for 70'/21m is 50min

Time over NDL is 70min = 70min Deco Time

2 deco segments: 20'/6m and up on O2 and the 70'/21m to 30'/9m

O2 is as follows: 10 on, 5 off, 10 on, 5 off, 5on and up

deco starting at 50% = 40'/12m

deep stops at 75% = 50'/15m (70min over NDL = 3min)

50'/15m 3min
40'/12m 12min
30'/9m 23min
20'/6m 10 on, 5 off, 10 on, 5 off, 5on and up
10'/3m

Adjust the O2 segment according to surface condition.

Hope this helps. BTW, gas management, RB is a bit of a nightmare on this profile. I recommend breaking it up into 2 60min dives. Same total bottom time, less deco stress, less RB, less frozen (if you dive cold water) etc.

Andy

Seems to me like the appropriate answer for the question was it's outside the realm of ratio deco. Personally, I'll gladly do about 15 minutes of deco (a few more when you consider the natural slowing caused by exiting the cave) and get out of the water. I know for a fact that GUE wouldn't advocate that, at least none of the cave 2 divers I dive with would...nor would they consider it extreme, it's something we do every weekend in FL.

FWIW I've never dove with a UTD diver. I've dove with several GUE divers, so rather than talking out of my a$$ I can only say what my c2 buddies would do. The above schedule posted in the UTD classroom might not represent what other UTD instructors or divers would do. I hope rjack comments here.

 

[Slamfire]

I've posted elsewhere about why I feel the way I do, so no need to get into it here.

Do you mind putting a link to your other post? I'd like to read your opinions on this matter.

AG got the boot from GUE, then NAUI, and finally just started his own (for profit) company. I'm just not all about that, ymmv.

It sounds so much more conflictive in the internets than what you actually get to experience in real life -- at least in my own personal experience. I've done staged deco dives and wreck dives with different people; some trained by GUE and some trained by UTD. Like others said before me, I've yet to find one with a stuck up nose.

For the sake of being argumentative I could say that GUE, in spite of being nominally a non-profit organization has ties that are way too close to Halcyon, a for profit entity. I could further say that these ties can and have created conflicts of interest.

On the other hand, UTD has already come up with it's own UTD branded gear line -- so now they are also gear merchants. That again can create conflicts of interest. Bottomline, I have no interest in defending or attacking either of these agencies. I am not tied or affiliated to either of them in any way. But I can categorically affirm that I have met and dove with people that are trained by both of these agencies and these people are great divers and great human beings.

P.S. The soap opera drama like interactions and gossip do make an interesting occasional read.