DIR & reef hooks?

[detroit diver]

Mr. DD,

1. Your posts about the deceased are in very poor taste, they can be very hurtful to the families involved.
2. You have now attacked two people on this board for no reason, SeaJay and myself.
3. I have had sea water up my nose on several occasions, it does not bother me. Not being macho, just after the first 10 or 20 times I got used to it

If you want to make fun of me because I do not have your 60 years of diving expericence thats fine. But I dive with people who have been instructors since the 1960's (combat diver also, I'm a military brat). I don't think they would recommend doing anything that is dangerous, and yes, I do trust my life in thier hands.

There are certain diving activities that are on the edge, and for this reason I do not share them on this board. But the use of a hook is not in this category, if used properly I don't think its any big deal.

I agree with SeaJay in that attacking people is not productive, attack the issues and keep the emotions out of it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I will continue to do what works for me....

1a. The result of the activity that you encourage.

2a. Your interpretation.

3a. Congratulations.

You trust your life in your boat mates hands? What? You are solo diving! There is no buddy. What are they going to do to help you?

Why do you think they call this thing a reef hook? If people didn't use them to attach themselves to the reef, they would call it a rock hook, wouldn't they?

Let's make this a little clearer for you.

Without a reef hook, the woman that died would have:

Probably not lost her mask -she's moving with the current
Not had seawater forced up her nose
Have been able to ascend to the surface without restriction.

Lot's of people do really stupid stuff, and don't know that it is even dangerous. Just because you live through it doesn't make it safe.

 

[Charlie99]

Detroit Diver bubbled: Without a reef hook, the woman that died would have:

Probably not lost her mask -she's moving with the current
Not had seawater forced up her nose
Have been able to ascend to the surface without restriction.

Without a reef hook, the woman wouldn't have had a reason to do the dive.

If that lady hadn't been using scuba gear, she wouldn't have been underwater. She wouldn't have had seawater forced up her nose. She would have already been on the surface.

So let's place the blame on her regulator.

 

[Charlie99]

This one will mess with your heads.
a 12 man peramid all reef hooked into each other with a rippin current

http://www.scubaboard.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4915

The danger is seldom with the equipment it is usualy with the lack of training and experience of the diver using the equipment

Look at the big grin on those guys.
They are obviously incompetent, horrible divers that don't take this life & death scuba stuff seriously enough.

 

[detroit diver]

Without a reef hook, the woman wouldn't have had a reason to do the dive.

If that lady hadn't been using scuba gear, she wouldn't have been underwater. She wouldn't have had seawater forced up her nose. She would have already been on the surface.

So let's place the blame on her regulator.

Brilliant. Simply brilliant.

 

[jplacson]

Ok, seeing how heated this simple thread has gotten... I've decided against reef-hooks. I agree on the fact that a reef hook may have been the largest contributing factor to that woman's death... considering the few facts that were posted, I'm only guessing that she hooked on to feel safe... then, when the current blew off her mask, she panicked...breathed through her nose... panicked even more... tried to unhook, but couldn't since the line was attached to only one strap thus floating her sideways... then she passed out & drowned. Sea-Jay is right though, you can't blame the hook... it's a hook. It did it's job. But most diver's aren't trained enough to deal with situations that may arise from using these, or other specialized gear, in the first place.

Now, I'm not saying you can't have fun underwater...goofing off every now & then... but I feel divers lack so much emergency training or even just basic panic management skills. I've seen divers with years of diving under their belt still flapping their arms around to stay horizontal or to turn around. I've seen experienced divers freak out when their leg gets caught in a line, instead of just calmly untangling their leg.

The point is, I've decided against the reef hook for the following reasons:
1)Don't really need it... I thought it was a good idea when I saw my friend use one, but I didn't really NEED it back then either...just thought it was neat.

2)I have doubts on the 'less damaging to the reef' part since I never 'grab' rocks to hang on, I just use a finger or two... and since I use my hands, I never hang on for long... the reef hook may make me linger longer, and I may just end up damaging the reef even more. And wouldn't a metal hook damage the reef more than a soft human finger?

3)I'd rather not use or carry anything that I don't really need.

**on a slightly different note... to all underwater photographers who use reef hooks to stay anchored... try to use underwater lights instead of strobes... fish do not have eyelids, and strobes blind them temporarily, making them more vulnerable to predators. I've heard that at least, lights give them time to adjust to the brightness. Just try having someone hold your eyes open and flashing those things at the same distance you take your photos :lol: ..without blinking your eyes afterwards... just so you know how the fish feel**

 

[jplacson]

Ok... the new (LOL) icon just looks freaky. hahahaha

 

[HammerNoMore]

Ok, seeing how heated this simple thread has gotten... I've decided against reef-hooks. I agree on the fact that a reef hook may have been the largest contributing factor to that woman's death.

Again, I've stayed out of the name calling here, but I'll respond to responsible posters. FYI, I've never used, nor seen a need for a reef hook personally. But from what I have read, the woman in question died from a lack of training, period, end of story. At the risk of sounding cliche, guns don't kill people, people kill peoples.

... considering the few facts that were posted, I'm only guessing that she hooked on to feel safe... then, when the current blew off her mask, she panicked...breathed through her nose... panicked even more... tried to unhook, but couldn't since the line was attached to only one strap thus floating her sideways... then she passed out & drowned. Sea-Jay is right though, you can't blame the hook... it's a hook. It did it's job. But most diver's aren't trained enough to deal with situations that may arise from using these, or other specialized gear, in the first place.

Yep, sound right. I've never said you should do something you are not trained for. I've learned that the hard way, i.e. thying to blow an SMB and ascending way too fast in the process.

The point is, I've decided against the reef hook for the following reasons:
1)Don't really need it... I thought it was a good idea when I saw my friend use one, but I didn't really NEED it back then either...just thought it was neat.

Now that is an intelligent argument.

2)I have doubts on the 'less damaging to the reef' part since I never 'grab' rocks to hang on, I just use a finger or two... and since I use my hands, I never hang on for long... the reef hook may make me linger longer, and I may just end up damaging the reef even more. And wouldn't a metal hook damage the reef more than a soft human finger?

This is where O-Ring when wrong. If you need a reef hook, doesn't mean you should hook it on live reef.

3)I'd rather not use or carry anything that I don't really need.

Another great argument. And it goes to my orignal post. You've decided now, not to avoid reef hooks because it's not "DIR" but because it doesn't make any sense for you.

A great example of positive thinking....

James

 

[narcT]

"The current is sometimes ripping and a reef hook was often essential...."

http://www.jellitot.com/GalapagosUnderwater.htm

http://www.scubadiving.com/article/0,7424,4-0-0-377-2-3X5-3,00.html

"We used reef hooks on the barnacle covered volcanic rocks."
"This dive trip is not for novice divers. There is no pretty coral to see. The vis at best was 40-60 feet. The water was cool (68-73) (7mm wetsuits, gloves and hoods are necessary) and the current was swift."
http://people.bu.edu/lbadgett/Lesson02/travel_log.htm

"Strongly recommended are safety sausages, reef hooks, and dive alerts to maximize safety and despite the preconception, reef hooks actually save the reef rather than damage it. "
http://underwaterphotos.com/PALAU.htm

"The Reef Hook Experience
What is a reef hook? It is a metal hook approximately 4" (10cm) long attached to a 6 foot (2m) rope and a snap ring. You secure the snap ring to one of the D rings in your BCD. Why use a reef hook? Some of the dive sites in Palau (such as Blue Corner, New Drop Off, Peleliu Corner, etc.) have strong currents (which attract the big fish and sharks). The reef hook enables you to secure yourself to the reef without any effort and without damaging the pristine reef. "
http://www.diveguide.com/p3064c.htm

 

[-hh]

hh, I have a concern regarding possible entanglement in the reef hook line... could this be why DIR doesn't recommend reef hooks?

My apologies for the delay in responding. I don't know if DIR has an official position or not, nor do I care, because I'm not particularly convinced that they've "Been There" sufficient to make an informed, objective decision.

I will say "YES" that there is a possible entanglement risk, but this is not unique to the reef hook: if it has a line, a possibility exists, no matter how small. Overall, its merely is YA possible source of risk for identification and management. Since there's abandoned fishing nets floating around in the seas and the like, there will never be a zero entanglement risk in diving.

Moving on, having quickly read through the "heat" on this thread, and having made dives in currents with and without using a reef hook, I will say that at times I will choose to use a hook, even if there is a slight risk that I might be killed because I'll be too workloaded to release myself from the bottom. The main reason for this personal decision is because I've found that use of a reef hook generally reduces my air consumption on one particular type of dive, and that is the benefit that I base the trade-off on (risk:reward).

What doesn't seem to be understood is what is unique about a "hooked" dive is there is a need to remain at a location, despite it having a (strong) current. Yes, you could choose to drift dive it, but the value and interest of the location is because the specifics of the local topology -- and current -- funnels and concentrates meaningful sea life to that location.

So the better dive plan is that instead of just "passing through", you plan to dwell at the focal point, thereby maximize your engagement opportunity. For this type of dive plan, a reef hook is merely a facilitator, and an alternative to holding on with your bare hands (which is more fatiguing).

I've not read the thread on the Palau reef hook death; I'll try to read it all tomorrow. But my speculative guess is that the diver died because their personal watermanship skills were not good enough for the dive environment.

I know that this sounds crass and like a self-fulfilling statement, but we should not blame a piece of equipment nor even a dive location if someone tried to do something that is routinely done by others but which happens to be beyond their ability. I've dived long enough to know that it is not rare for divers to attempt what they're not really yet ready for, and sadly, the unlucky ones don't survive their mistake. I'm also not saying that I've been perfect and never made such a mistake: on the contrary, I have made mistakes...I've simply been lucky enough to have survived them. Sometimes, its better to be lucky than good, but being good can't hurt either.


-hh