DIR/GUE OW class

[Adobo]

Back to the original post, I don't see that as too much material IF you require the student to read the material first. My guess is that not reading it before class would be just about a sure-fire way to flunk it.

Isn't it more than just the bookwork though? I thought the difference between GUE and the garden variety agencies is that they are out to build proficiency in their divers. Anyone can throw books and theory at you. But in DIR-F, you actually have to show some level of skills mastery to "pass" (or so I hear).

If they are trying to cover OW, AOW, Nitrox, DIR-F and potentially dry suit as well, that would mean that the diver would need to show some level of competence in deep diving (presumably that is the most challenging specialty in AOW), dry suit emergency management and bouyancy, trim, propulsion techniques. That's a lot of skills to try and get good at after 8 pool sessions and 8 open water dives.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Back to the original post, I don't see that as too much material IF you require the student to read the material first. My guess is that not reading it before class would be just about a sure-fire way to flunk it.

The vast majority of any PADI or SSI class appears to go over the material that in theory you already read (for the folks that won't read it before hand -- the vast majority).

When I took my PADI Nitrox class I got the book and video, read the book, did the knowledge exams and watched the video. Showed up for class, *everyone* but me had bailed on the class, the instructor asked "Read the book?" "yes" "Taken the tests at the end of the chapters?" "yes" "Watched the video?" "Yes". He asked me a few verbal questions to see how well I grasped the subject matter, fumed (at PADI, not me) and said, well, sorry I gotta do this and proceeded to put us both to sleep covering the stuff I already knew well.

The entire class was designed so you didn't have to read the book. I don't expect that least-common-denominator approach from GUE.

Roak

I would say that the academic part won't be the issue at all ... it will be the in-water training. The skills required to achieve DIR-F level control, especially while task loaded during an air-share or mask removal, require some practice. I'm not suggesting that it can't be done ... but I am skeptical that it can be "mastered" during the framework of an OW class, no matter how well the class is run. Some students are better at it than others ... but where you're dealing with students who don't have a high comfort level in the water coming into the class, you're working against a stress level that's induced simply by being in a "foreign" environment.

I had eight pool sessions for my OW class, we stayed pretty busy with skills, and we didn't cover half of that curriculum .... certainly nothing that came even close to DIR-F level skills.

I'm very interested in seeing how it's done ... and how one handles the "provisional" student in this class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Might have missed it, but any idea on the students cost of this puppy?

As Bob-GD says, if it's too far off the mark, a whole raft will not even look at it, regardless of how much better it is. You also can't really say you're not marketting it to the masses, because in a large way you are. Since the % of the diving public is quite small, how narrow can you get before it just isn't feasible financially for the providers of the course.

Then again, I guess they're surviving already,.......

Best of luck, can't wait to see it so I can add some more thought into my own OW courses. (Immitation being the best form of flattery does not bother me).

Regards

 

[diveh3]

I think this is great news!
I asked when this was going to happen a little over a year ago, My wife wanted to be certified but at the time no time line was given from GUE.
A huge benefit will be that the OW diver will have the TEAM tools to train and progress with. If I add up my ow/aow/nitrox/fundamentals...gear that has been bought and ebayed.....I am already in the thousands and not real satisfied with my training.
How much is it worth to have my wife, son, daughter trained in this style of diving??
To me, the cost will be one of the smaller issues, it would be priceless to have them come out of camp with these skills ready to dive.

Like Lamont, I have seen photos of OW "beta version" students and wish I had learned that from the start.

On another note, I understand you need to show up to class with your snorkel!
Free diving is fun too.

 

[TSandM]

We talked about the OW class during last weekend's Fundies. They're still working on it, from what I heard. Our instructor also voiced the same concerns that many other have -- the viability of such a program from a financial standpoint.

I loved Fundies. This felt like the kind of instruction I had expected from OW and didn't get. Solid intellectual content and high and strict standards for skills. I didn't do very well, either, and I still really liked the class. But I don't think I would have taken it as an OW class. I didn't even know if I was really going to enjoy diving. The time and money I put into OW was about what I was willing to (and could) do. It was only after getting thoroughly hooked AND having examples of what kind of precision and elegance was possible underwater, as well as delving into the intellectual side and discovering how much more there was to know, that I had the motivation to spend the additional money and time (and subject myself to the humbling experience) in Fundies.

I'm sure there will be some people who know from the beginning that they WANT to dive, and dive well, and who will leap at a GUE OW program. I don't think there will be a lot of them, at least at first, and that means few programs will be given, which will make it even harder for people who want one to find access. But it may be something that will start small and take off over time, just as DIR-F has. And it's pretty clear from what we paid for Fundies that GUE is not worried about making a lot of money off their classes.

 

[Al_star]

I think the DIR open water is possible. One of the guys I've shared a few boats with runs a BSAC (british sub aqua club) in Cambridge in the UK. They teach their students in BP and wing with long hoses right from the start. They also work on buoyancy so that their students perform their skills horizontal. His experience suggests it's definitely viable.

The only concession to the BSAC agency he's had to make is that they teach octopus donation first and once they've successfully demonstrated that, they move onto primary donation.

I doubt the GUE course will ever go mainstream, but then I doubt that's going to worry anyone.

 

[The Kraken]

The market segments served by different providers determine success or failure.
One of the basic marketing tenets is that if the interest has been expressed, then the market for that particular good or service must exist. It is up to the entrepreneur to determine how best to supply the market.

Such is the case with something like a GUE basic course.

If the market interest is strong enough to make such a program viable, then it can possibly succeed. If the market interest is not strong enough, then it will surely fail.

One thing is an absolute certainty, if one does not try, one does not succeed.

Sometimes it's better to risk high failure than low success.

the K

 

[detroit diver]

K,

This is exactly the issue here. An agency is making an attempt to teach better skills in a class. Plain and simple.

The lawsuit issue is a non-starter.

I, for one, don't think many people will pony up the funds or time to take this class, when $99 weekend specials are promoted. But the few that do will get one heck of a scuba lesson.

The market segments served by different providers determine success or failure.
One of the basic marketing tenets is that if the interest has been expressed, then the market for that particular good or service must exist. It is up to the entrepreneur to determine how best to supply the market.

Such is the case with something like a GUE basic course.

If the market interest is strong enough to make such a program viable, then it can possibly succeed. If the market interest is not strong enough, then it will surely fail.

One thing is an absolute certainty, if one does not try, one does not succeed.

Sometimes it's better to risk high failure than low success.

the K

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

OK, so now that the distraction has been removed, can we get this conversation back on track?

I, for one, am interested in hearing more specifics on how this course will be taught ... how "provisionals" will be handled (if at all) ... and what GUE's cost for this course will be. We've been hearing nothing but rumors for a long time ... seems like it's ready to roll, and I'd love to learn more about how GUE envisions making it work.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[detroit diver]

Let's start a contest. No prizes. We'll guess at what the cost will be.

I'll start. I would guess around $900.00

Anyone else?

OK, so now that the distraction has been removed, can we get this conversation back on track?

I, for one, am interested in hearing more specifics on how this course will be taught ... how "provisionals" will be handled (if at all) ... and what GUE's cost for this course will be. We've been hearing nothing but rumors for a long time ... seems like it's ready to roll, and I'd love to learn more about how GUE envisions making it work.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)