DIR/GUE Attitude: I just don't see it

[DaleC]

I read a lot of threads here from people who have had a couple of bad instabuddy experiences, and decide as a result to buy a pony bottle and solo dive.

In the DIR world, we don't choose that option. We decide to improve as divers, and to help mentor our own, quality buddies.

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where I'm excited and happy to dive with a new buddy, than the one where I want a pony bottle and permission to dive alone.

Speaking of context. Although I'm sure Lynne did not intent so, this post caught my eye and made me join the discussion (for a moment). If I didn't know better I could assume she meant that, because I choose to both solo dive and use a pony I must not choose to be a good buddy, or that her choice was somehow more conducive to happiness and/or excitement than mine.

I can do both.

However, I am not handicapped by the lack of a buddy nor by the occasions when a buddy is less than optimal.

I also could not do my current form of diving (long term fish study in an admittedly otherwise boring lake) if I had to rely on others to join me. It just wouldn't happen. Most divers I know can only dive occasionally and then they want to maximize their experience by hitting the photo/watercooler moments in the ocean. I get that. I can only occasionally talk them into joining me inland and usually only after I have discovered something interesting to see via solo diving first.
Others who have invested time and money into team diving like DIR also don't want to spend their dives looking for a small fish in under 100' of water in a lake. That's not the type of diving that attracts them (on a regular basis).

That I choose to do what I feel is worthwhile and am willing to develop and employ the skills and equipment to do so has allowed me to develop a real sense of purpose and accomplishment that would not have been possible if I had to rely on the team concept. I don't think my choices are diminished because of that - just as I don't think a team diver is diminished by their choices.

... and I like Lynne's posts - even when I disagree. I also like DIR for what it is, but as some others have said; it doesn't fit all people and all occasions. If one wants to understand why some people get a little put off by it, part of the reason may be the even sometimes subtle suggestion that other choices are "sub optimal". They're not - they're just different.

Regards,
Dale.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I don't know if it's so much of a critisism or stating that it's necessarily sub-optimal.

Speaking for myself, I am fortunate to have a few buddies that share similar goals (Tech 1, trips to Chuuk, and later Tech 2).
Being able to dive together and work toward our common goals is an advantage for us. The alternative would be to plan to travel and get in on someone else's class.
Luckily we can plan and budget for traveling together for training or diving.

As a frame of reference, I have dove solo before, and have a solo diver certification. So I do understand the appeal.
But solo diving doesn't fit into my future goals, or fall in line with the training path I chose.

By following GUE training and mentioning the aspects of it that appeal to me, does not indicate a condemnation of other ways of diving, including solo diving.

It certainly means that I am choosing to not dive solo, but I'm not critisizing those that do.....it just doesn't fall inline with my goals.

I will add that I wouldn't recommend or convince others to dive solo. I believe that is something that people should research and decide for themselves, not have the idea impressed upon them. (not saying you are), the thought just occured to me as I was typing.

For me....it just boils down to adopting what helps me reach my diving goals.....anything else would just be taking away from reaching those goals.
I am very dependent upon my team mates to reach my future goals. The same goes for them, so we approach our dives with this attitude....it makes for some very fun diving!
THAT attitude is also a very appealing part of GUE diving to me.

The frustrating part for me is this:

How can I express pro-GUE ideas or opinions without it being read as a condemnation of other practices?
Sometimes I just want to post something....and not have it be taken out of context.

BTW...I watched a couple of your lake videos....pretty cool.

 

[DaleC]

I think you expressed yourself quite well. Knowing your goals, doing the work, being invested in your path and yet recognizing that others path's, while different, may be equally valid - for them if not for you.
I also don't tell others they should or should not solo when they ask. It happens occasionally IRL. I just sort of shrug and say to think about it a lot and don't do it because it's cool or something. If they are determined I will tell them what I do but also re-enforce that the biggest thing is taking personal responsibility for ones actions. I've always known it comes with a risk that must be decided on by the person involved yet I also believe some people are up to it. Who they are but I also feel that way about tech, deep and cave diving.

 

[HenrikBP]

Yes, there are certainly other ways to do it. But this one definitely works.

After being disappointed with other training I started looking for a better fit. I came across GUE training and after a couple of intro days realized that certainly the required basic skill set was what I was looking for.

As for the system - the way I figured: it was developed by divers who've forgotten more about diving than I'll ever know, with the sole purpose of keeping divers safe through dives ranging from shallow reef to serious cave expeditions. I saw no reason to attempt to reinvent the wheel. The fact that the system fits my personality well is just a bonus

In the 3-4 years since I started GUE training, I've only come across good people, who I've been happy to dive with.

Here on SB tempers do tend to flare a bit, but I blame that partly on writing being an inefficient and lacking means of communication for most of us

Edit: just noticed Dale's sig line - that's pretty funny.

 

[TSandM]

Dale, the sad part is that, if we lived closer to one another, I suspect I'd be more than happy to do your fish studies with you. My biggest problem locally is finding other GUE-style divers who are the least bit interested in fish!

My comment, which you quoted, was not intended to mean that anyone who is diving solo with a pony has given up on good buddy skills. One of the people I mean when I talked about superb, non-DIR divers, is Charlie99 here on SB. He doesn't post much any more, but he used to contribute a lot, and he knows more about the ocean than I will ever come close to knowing. He's also a superb buddy, even though he probably does 90% of his diving alone.

What I was deploring was the person who has a bad experience with an unknown or instabuddy, and decides as a result of it that the buddy system is intrinsically flawed, and one is better off diving alone. I KNOW -- I don't intuit, or infer, or hypothesize, I KNOW -- that the buddy system can work well and in addition, be absolutely enjoyable as well. If ones buddy is on the same wavelength, from dive planning to execution to debrief, diving with a friend or friends is a great experience. The complaints come from people who are not on the same page, and sometimes don't know how to PUT people on the same page. This system irons out a lot of those differences, and makes life just plain easier.

 

[BluewaterSail]

Speaking of context. Although I'm sure Lynne did not intent so, this post caught my eye and made me join the discussion (for a moment). If I didn't know better I could assume she meant that, because I choose to both solo dive and use a pony I must not choose to be a good buddy, or that her choice was somehow more conducive to happiness and/or excitement than mine.

I can do both.

However, I am not handicapped by the lack of a buddy nor by the occasions when a buddy is less than optimal.

I also could not do my current form of diving (long term fish study in an admittedly otherwise boring lake) if I had to rely on others to join me. It just wouldn't happen. Most divers I know can only dive occasionally and then they want to maximize their experience by hitting the photo/watercooler moments in the ocean. I get that. I can only occasionally talk them into joining me inland and usually only after I have discovered something interesting to see via solo diving first.
Others who have invested time and money into team diving like DIR also don't want to spend their dives looking for a small fish in under 100' of water in a lake. That's not the type of diving that attracts them (on a regular basis).

That I choose to do what I feel is worthwhile and am willing to develop and employ the skills and equipment to do so has allowed me to develop a real sense of purpose and accomplishment that would not have been possible if I had to rely on the team concept. I don't think my choices are diminished because of that - just as I don't think a team diver is diminished by their choices.

... and I like Lynne's posts - even when I disagree. I also like DIR for what it is, but as some others have said; it doesn't fit all people and all occasions. If one wants to understand why some people get a little put off by it, part of the reason may be the even sometimes subtle suggestion that other choices are "sub optimal". They're not - they're just different.

Regards,
Dale.

Dale,

It is just chance that you don't have GUE trained divers in your area who are interested in a scientific research project like monitoring the fish in a lake. However, this situation does not represent GUE as a whole. GUE is very much into supporting that type of research. They actively support an initiative called Project Baseline, which involves the monitoring and recording of dive sites in order to track their change over time.

projectbaseline

In fact, you could maybe even do a Project Baseline project on your lake, as they don't limit involvement to GUE members or GUE trained divers, or even to divers! There are currently alot of small projects preparing to post data. Its not just for the biggies like WKPP, they just supplied the first data so that the project could kick off.

Personally, if I lived near you, I would love to take part in that type of research. I have been looking locally for a site that I could start a project on; but I found that the sites that interested me are already quite studied by university and/or government teams.

btw, I totally emphasize with your situation with not finding like-minded buddies locally to dive with. It is very frustrating, and you end up doing things that are different in some way from what you would choose in an optimal world. Folks that live near an active community which happens to be on their wavelength have no way of understanding.


Linda

 

[Pullmyfinger]

After being disappointed with other training I started looking for a better fit. I came across GUE training and after a couple of intro days realized that certainly the required basic skill set was what I was looking for.

As for the system - the way I figured: it was developed by divers who've forgotten more about diving than I'll ever know, with the sole purpose of keeping divers safe through dives ranging from shallow reef to serious cave expeditions. I saw no reason to attempt to reinvent the wheel. The fact that the system fits my personality well is just a bonus

In the 3-4 years since I started GUE training, I've only come across good people, who I've been happy to dive with.

Here on SB tempers do tend to flare a bit, but I blame that partly on writing being an inefficient and lacking means of communication for most of us

Edit: just noticed Dale's sig line - that's pretty funny.

I love his status:
"DaleC is an entanglement hazard"

Hilarious!

 

[JamesK]

I think some people forget that DIR divers can do nonDIR dives.

I was a DIR guy for many years. I think it is an excellent way to dive and I believe that GUE is a wonderful training program.

Over the years I started finding the need, or actually want, to do solo dives. Sometimes I just wanted to be alone. Or sometimes I just could not find an available buddy and really wanted to get in the water. Whatever the reason, I started doing a lot of solo dives. I also turned to side mount in the last year.

I was at Ginnie and speaking to a GUE instructor and discussing my gear and dive plan. I got stood up by my buddies that day and was heading in solo. He stated he ha many solo dives in Ginnie. He also liked the simple layout of my kit. I explained that I was a former DIR guy and wanted to bring as much of that as I could over to my side mount diving.

I have dove with DIR and nonDIR buddies in both cases I have had buddies that were awesome, some that were so wrapped up in the stuff around them they forgot I existed, and some so wrapped up in being a buddy they did not see a thing.

All in all, GUE, DIR, and the basis behind it simply can not be argued against. It is a well thought out way to dive. The gear lay out, the team concept, the training, the gases and their management. It is all top notch. For big dives where you are going to be assigned to multiple teams throughout the week, standardization is a must. For the easier dives good familiarity with your buddy and their setup is sufficient.

The only thing people seem to argue on anymore is the Internet chest beating from years ago. I simply do not understand that. It baffles me. Those were different times, and those remarks were not directed at 99% of the diving community.

Someone PMed me once asking about my status all pissed off about it. How can I be "undercover DIR"? Accusingly of being a hypocrite and a GI3 nutswinger. Well, this should answer the question.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... it appears, James, that we have a lot in common ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ucfdiver]

Dale, the sad part is that, if we lived closer to one another, I suspect I'd be more than happy to do your fish studies with you. My biggest problem locally is finding other GUE-style divers who are the least bit interested in fish!

Come to Florida, no one around here gives a crap about rusty piles of metal...and the medical college here is hiring professors