DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?

[salty]

Politics...the name says it all. Poly... meaning several and tics...meaning blod sucking creatures. Put together the word means many blood sucking creatures. There you have it. The one true way of politics.

ROLF

This passage DESERVES a coke warning, I almost fell out of my chair. Thanks Mike

 

[pipedope]

with GUE right now is that you can't start out with them.
There is no DIR OW class and cert.

I know they are working on it.

It will help when it becomes available.

 

[gj62]

Similarly to what DA said, I think it is the concept of being told, "I'm doing it right, therefore, you are doing it wrong". There are numerous DIR divers that go out of their way to *not* say this, but there's certainly a group that does.

It is incorrect to state opinion as facts, and that is mostly what DIR does. Within their system, there is generally a single methodology at work, whether it be buddy system, rigs, dive protocols, etc. These are good systems, and work well in most cases for those that adopt them. But rather than just say, "You are not DIR if you do x, y or z", it more often comes across that you are doing it wrong.

Funny that Mike F would say, "In science we often find only one truth in any one given subject. There may be multiple theories but in the end only one (if any) is true."
Historically, many proofs to which there was no valid arguement against at the time of their "proving" have been overturned. Science often submits something as a proof, only to find that the proof was flawed.

So, the day when DIR puts themselves forward as "a way of diving focused on safety and building on a solid foundation of skills that require a complete commitment to the holistic nature of DIR", there will be alot less negative talk than today, when the statement is more to the tune that since I'm right, everyone else must be wrong...

 

[Boogie711]

You know, GJ - I've read a lot of your posts, and it's clear that you have respect for some of the principles and concepts behind DIR, but are absolutely unwilling to take a class or do more about it. In fact, you seem quite dedicated to criticizing DIR, albeit not to the degree our old friend Chrpai was.

What happened? Did GI3 sleep with your spouse or something? Were you mugged by two guys wearing backplates and long hoses? Maybe you're have BlueHphobia?

Open up, man - we're here for you.

 

[MikeFerrara]

So, the day when DIR puts themselves forward as "a way of diving focused on safety and building on a solid foundation of skills that require a complete commitment to the holistic nature of DIR", there will be alot less negative talk than today, when the statement is more to the tune that since I'm right, everyone else must be wrong...

Actually that is how GUE presents it. They do things how they do things because they think it's works best. They offer it if you want it.

Another point is that most of the divers involved in DIR have tried other approaches so they have a comparisson. They alamost all started out someplace else. At the same time most of the divers who argue against it haven't tried it and have nothing to compare.

 

[gj62]

You know, GJ - I've read a lot of your posts, and it's clear that you have respect for some of the principles and concepts behind DIR, but are absolutely unwilling to take a class or do more about it. In fact, you seem quite dedicated to criticizing DIR, albeit not to the degree our old friend Chrpai was.

Gosh, I don't find myself wanting to spend the time, money or energy. I did borrow DIR, The Fundamentals of Better Diving, and I've even watched some of the videos. As I have said, and will continue to state - I think there are alot of good principles that DIR has adopted. Most of those principals were in existence long before DIR, and some I've adopted, and some I haven't.

However, there are also some critical flaws in my opinion which I won't belabor here - as you pointed out, I've posted them elsewhere and that's not what this thread is about... The issues I raised in my previous post on this thread hit to the heart of the matter for me.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

...However if you go to the local sites and watch recreational divers there is one group who's skills really stand out from the rest and I don't mean by only a little. It's like night and day. That group is the divers who have gone through one or more DIRF classes and spent some time with their buddies practicing. You could put them in totally different equipment and they'd still stand out big time.

So...even if we set aside all the specifics of DIR, GUE is the only organization teaching that level of skill at the recreational level. There may be individual instructors from other organizations who do but no other agency is demanding it.

If you ever get the chance at least go watch part of a DIRF it's true that not very many divers do well regardless of cert level with other "recreational" agencies. And we're just talking about basic skills, nothing DIR specific.

I'd really have to say that GUE is the only agency that I see who's really making a noticable difference in the skill level of recreational divers...

I must agree with what Mike Ferrara says above (emphasis added).

Regardless of a diver's opinion about DIR, loud rants from supporters, equally loud derision from skeptics, and all the internet arguing..., in terms of refining in-water skills GUE has constructive things to offer anyone - recreational as well as technical divers.

Hopefully divers who want to refine their skills and capabilities will be motivated to see past any name-calling or preconceived notions and investigate for themselves whether the things that GUE has to offer would make sense for them.



[And I hope we can avoid turning this thread into one like the other 3,478 or so DIR/Anti-DIR rants in the archives!]

 

[gj62]

Actually that is how GUE presents it.

If only. Sorry, but leadership sets the tone, and I've heard and read enough from the leaders at GUE to know that while their formal website and manuals may be somewhat PC on the subject, their actual thoughts and other writings indicate otherwise.

Another point is that most of the divers involved in DIR have tried other approaches so they have a comparisson. They alamost all started out someplace else. At the same time most of the divers who argue against it haven't tried it and have nothing to compare.

I have take the time to learn about the holistic approach - including watching some of the videos and reading DIR - Fundamentals of Better Diving. Some of it I like and use (and had been using before DIR), and some of it I disagree with (or simply don't see the need for in the type of diving I do) and don't follow.

Let's not hijack this thread - there's another thread about why people don't do DIR and I've stated all my reasons there ad-nauseum...

 

[MikeFerrara]

Gosh, I don't find myself wanting to spend the time, money or energy. I did borrow DIR, The Fundamentals of Better Diving, and I've even watched some of the videos. As I have said, and will continue to state - I think there are alot of good principles that DIR has adopted. Most of those principals were in existence long before DIR, and some I've adopted, and some I haven't.

To be sure DIR isn't the origine of good overall technique. They didn't invent horizontal trim or the frog kick. But they've come up with some pretty cool stuff.

Off the top of my head...

Their standard gasses... Many long time trimix divers prefer heliair for a couple reasons. First it's easy to mix. You put in some helium and top with air. Second, just by analyzing O2 conent you know exactly what your mix is because you know that the only ingrediants are air (known O2 content) and helium. The problem is that the mixes you get are low on O2 and high on N2.

Gue decided that if you bank 32% you'd have a better gas for the shallow stuff than air and guess what? If you dump in some helium and top with 32% you get the GUE standard gasses 21/35, 18/45, 15/55 and 10/70. You also know exactly what you're mis is by just analyzing O2 because you know that you topped with 32%.

A side benefit is how it simplified dive planning. When you dive the same mixes in the same depth ranges all the time you can't help but memorize profiles so my remembering a few simple rules you can toss out your computer.

The way they manage stages is pretty cool too although not relevant for every one.

Oh and one of the best one for recreational divers is their rock bottom concept whis is really an OW adaptation of the rule of thirds which is designed for overheads. No one else is teaching gas management this way that I know of.

 

[MikeFerrara]

If only. Sorry, but leadership sets the tone, and I've heard and read enough from the leaders at GUE to know that while their formal website and manuals may be somewhat PC on the subject, their actual thoughts and other writings indicate otherwise.

The leadership does set the tone. No doubt the GI3 is a real character along with those who chose to imitate him you don't get that stuff from JJ.

Being a Halcyon dealer for several years I've had business dealing with him and I've discussed training with him both on the phone and when I ran into him at a Florida cave. He's got a pretty live and let live attitude.

I've also met a few other GUE instructors MHK, Brando, Scott and briefly David Rae (sp). In fact Brandon invited me to audit a whole class knowing that I'm an IANTD instructor. I ran into MHK while he was teaching a class at the same place I was and he invited my wife and I to sit in also. Except for MHK who participates on the boards a little more than the others they all seem to keep pretty much to themselves unless you go looking for them. Not a bad public image if you ask me. What more could you ask for?

I do love to trash the lemming though. LOL