DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?

[RUFUST]

I think a lot of the problem is the diehards that treat DIR as a CULT-RELIGION,not as a way of doing something.We probely have all sat on a boat and got scolded for our AL80 and AL19 pony(Reg on necklace BTW) by the guy wearing most of the dive shop just to do a shallow reef dive.DIR has a lot of good ideas I use when needed but are overkill at other times. Why can't we all just get along?

 

[MikeFerrara]

There is a reason that "recreational diving takes place at modest depths and within the "no deco limits". The reason is so there is direct access to the surface with little risk. In recreational diving safety stops are a precoution that can be done away with in an emergency allowing the troubled diver to go home. As we begin to plan and do more challanging dives there are many skill that must be developed together in a logical order.

--->recognize those words???

got it. The flaw in the logic is all the new OW divers who are taken to 100 ft following a DM. The depths just aren't always so modest.

I've never had a student so stupid that they couldn't understand simple gas planning nor have I ever found a good reason not to teach it.

On a recreational dive at modest depths all good gas planning requires is that you have enough reserve to get 2 people to the surface at a reasonable ascent rate and or back to the entry point if it's desired or required by the site. There isn't anything there that you might not need some day. Why would one argue so hard in favor of not knowing it?

Just check out all the divers doing rapid ascent or surfacing way away from the boat because of being low on gas.

If I had a nickle for everytime some OW diver walked in my shop and told me of a dive where they followed a DM on a deep dive and was down to fumes by the time they got back on the boat I'd be wealthy. About 10 minutes of lecture and having students do it on their training dives clears that right up.

Just in the last few days there was a good thread about just such an incedent.

There's no reason for it even at the recreational level.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think a lot of the problem is the diehards that treat DIR as a CULT-RELIGION,not as a way of doing something.We probely have all sat on a boat and got scolded for our AL80 and AL19 pony(Reg on necklace BTW) by the guy wearing most of the dive shop just to do a shallow reef dive.DIR has a lot of good ideas I use when needed but are overkill at other times. Why can't we all just get along?

Interesting. The typical hogarthian rig would likely have the diver hauling less stuff and far neater than what most divers carry. Also most dive shops wouldn't have any of it. Really it's just the oposit as far as looking like a poster child fr the dive shop.

What in DIR specifically would you say is overkill for a shallow reef dive?

 

[gj62]

got it. The flaw in the logic is all the new OW divers who are taken to 100 ft following a DM. The depths just aren't always so modest.

I've never had a student so stupid that they couldn't understand simple gas planning nor have I ever found a good reason not to teach it.

On a recreational dive at modest depths all good gas planning requires is that you have enough reserve to get 2 people to the surface at a reasonable ascent rate and or back to the entry point if it's desired or required by the site. There isn't anything there that you might not need some day. Why would one argue so hard in favor of not knowing it?

Just check out all the divers doing rapid ascent or surfacing way away from the boat because of being low on gas.

If I had a nickle for everytime some OW diver walked in my shop and told me of a dive where they followed a DM on a deep dive and was down to fumes by the time they got back on the boat I'd be wealthy. About 10 minutes of lecture and having students do it on their training dives clears that right up.

Just in the last few days there was a good thread about just such an incedent.

There's no reason for it even at the recreational level.

I'm not against it - I just went about it differently, and therefore don't credit GUE/DIR as coming up with the way to do it. That said, I also think a simple rule-of-thumb of returning with X psi is fine. You might teach it, I doubt many remember or use it. That's a reflection on the student, not on you, Mike.

Of course, there are also 1000s of dives that went smoothly for every dive where you see as a narrowly averted catastrophe.

Lastly, most rapid ascents and surfacing away from boats have little to do with gas management, and more about getting lost or not using a compass. Gas management isn't going to solve that, unless you have an unlimited supply...

 

[reubencahn]

So, the day when DIR puts themselves forward as "a way of diving focused on safety and building on a solid foundation of skills that require a complete commitment to the holistic nature of DIR", there will be alot less negative talk than today, when the statement is more to the tune that since I'm right, everyone else must be wrong...

And this is actually exactly how it was presented to me by my instructor and every DIR diver I've met--including GI3. That's why, as an open water, recreational diver, I took DIR-F and why I hope to take RecTriox this summer. More importantly, it's why I'm having my family take DIR-F this summer--safety and a solid foundation of skills. This is one place where real life or real diving and the internet diverge.

Incidentally, my rig is lighter, cleaner and more streamlined than it was before. I'm certainly not wearing half the dive shop.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm not against it - I just went about it differently, and therefore don't credit GUE/DIR as coming up with the way to do it.

They didn't really come up with it at all. They took a concept from overhead diving...have twice the gas that you need to get back and modified it to be something that was useful for recreational diving without being too restrictive as the rule of thirds often is in OW

That said, I also think a simple rule-of-thumb of returning with X psi is fine. You might teach it, I doubt many remember or use it. That's a reflection on the student, not on you, Mike.

The problem with telling some one to be back with X is that it doesn't tell them when to start back in order to do it and that X may not always be appropriate and that doesn't tell you how to come up with X in the first place.

Of course, there are also 1000s of dives that went smoothly for every dive where you see as a narrowly averted catastrophe.

Well, I did my first few dives without even knowing that you aren't supposed to hold your breath. I never got hurt but it wasn't by design. You can get away with almost anything most of the time but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to try.

 

[rjchandler]

I something.We probely have all sat on a boat and got scolded for our AL80 and AL19 pony(Reg on necklace BTW) by the guy wearing most of the dive shop just to do a shallow reef dive.?

Nope. never. do people do this where you dive?

 

[H2Andy]

the only buttmunch i've ever dived with was a DM in the Cayman Islands who was
so incredibly obnoxious i wanted to throw him overboard... he wasn't DIR

thing was... the guy was right 99% of the time. just wish he hadn't been so grating

for my own benefit, i decided NOT to confuse the message with the messanger, and actually learned a lot in a few dives, even though i hated his guts by the end of the week.

 

[JPBECK]

I think that it is because most shops dont dive DIR so they feel threatened that you will tant their customers with your Voodoo! Also I get the feeling that they know that you will not buy that new gizmo dangley thingy they are selling. They love the people that look like X-mas Trees casuse they think they will spend more mola at their shop. They think that DIR divers are cheap---nothing can be further from the truth --my BC was 600 bones and my light was 900 bones, ect----It could be that they think you are a techy and that you are cazy-----As if all DIR divers are TEchies (real deep divers out here) ... I know a DIR guy that never goes below 100fsw! Is that deep? Maybe for some, I dont know! So maybe its just where I am but that is the feeling I get when I walk into a dive shop around here.

Have a good-un

 

[gj62]

And this is actually exactly how it was presented to me by my instructor and every DIR diver I've met--including GI3.

You're kidding, right? Trey is obnoxiously holier-than-thou even in the DIR videos... Just another case of YMMV regarding opinions...

More importantly, it's why I'm having my family take DIR-F this summer--safety and a solid foundation of skills.

Honestly, you can apply many of the safety concepts without DIR-F. I'm not recommending against it, but taking the course does not automatically equate to a safer diver. While we're on that subject, what have you done for your family about driving skills and the other vehicles that share the road with you? Statistically, that's a much more dangerous activity. If I had to do one or the other, I'd enroll them in defensive driving and buy a very safe car long before I worried about DIR-F to increase my diving safety. That's assuming rec (no-overhead) diving.

They didn't really come up with it at all.

But you gave this in an earlier example of the things GUE did come up with. Jeesh!

Folks, this thread is if attitudes towards DIR vary regionally. As I stated, I think it has more to do with a philosophical bias. Of course, there are many areas where DIR isn't known - but I figure in that case, the arguement is moot.