DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?

[AquaTec]

King Kong

I am just saying it would be nice to know the creditians behind some of the statement s being made, as you sated earlier the guy with 10 dive who read the GUE manual can sometimes have the loudest voice.

but if we knew he had 10 dives and was an OWD then we could consider the source...with that being said you have a point about the doctor example. but it would work for the majority of divers on this board.

King Kong Matt quote
"Who are the real DIR divers (not an invitation to mention names)? Discounting all the zealots that own a boatload of Halcyon gear and know everything that JJ has ever read or said but have never taken DIRF, how many active, vocal members are we left with? If you can name more than half-a-dozen, than I will be impressed...even assuming you could name 15-20 experienced DIR divers that have been through the GUE curriculum and have done the classwork, you'd still be talking about a small fraction of the users on this board"

this would help with the above quote

 

[AquaTec]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
Most certainly some recent posts on this thread suggest a huge lack of knowledge with respect to DIR and GUE.

AquaTec,
You might want to sight in your gun before you go hunting!

SA

I am not hunting for anybody or any agency.
I just enjoy stimulating conversation, and i question peoples reasons for diving a certain way or using a certain gear configuration. generaly out of a desire to learn something new however it is amazing how many times the answer is "because it's DIR" so just because i don't consider that an answer it doesn't mean i am against DIR.

I just ask why someone does a certain thing looking for a reasonable answer, then if I thow something logical back i generaly get shut down as not being DIR.

does that explain why I am not hunting, just looking for some true reasonable answers instead of "my instructor told me so"

 

[Spectre]

King Kong Matt once bubbled...
You certainly can petition the powers that be for this addition under the Site Support forum, but between you me and the doorstep, I don't think that will ever happen...

I can neither confirm or deny the acceptance of such an enhancement request... you would have to post to site support and see what the powers that be think.

However... like people's location, it's something that can be easily modified, ignored, or lied in. Those that care to share the information generally put it in the 'biography' section of their profile...

 

[King Kong Matt]

Spectre once bubbled...

like people's location, it's something that can be easily modified, ignored, or lied in. Those that care to share the information generally put it in the 'biography' section of their profile...

And again, not that we are participating in a democracy here at ScubaBoard, but I suspect that most of us would prefer not to participate in a community where your relevance is exclusively related to your cert. card collection.

 

[tombiowami]

however it is amazing how many times the answer is "because it's DIR" so just because i don't consider that an answer it doesn't mean i am against DIR.

Where exactly have you seen this statement?
And what specific questions do you have about DIR?

There are several people who can answer your questions from an experienced point of view. (I am not one of them)

I read a lot of the posts, admittedly not all, but have never, ever, seen someone state you should do something because it is DIR, and it is DIR because their instructor told them.

That of course would be un-DIR

A mainstay of DIR is very thoughtful and logical reasons behind everything, one can always disagree with that reasoning and conclusion, but it is there never the less.

The DIR Fund class I took the instructors were very inquisitive about all of the different configurations, teaching methods, thought processes, etc. In 3 days of class, 3 or 4 instructors I never heard them say do something cause we told you to.

They never said do it a certain way or you will die.



Tommy

 

[diverberr]

roakey once bubbled...

Haven't been around long, have you? Oh, three posts. Another new comer who thinks that what he's saying is original. You're wrong, it's the antis who do the vast majority of the bashing because they don't know JS about the system. Grab a backplate and a long hose and get on just about ANY dive boat and tell me who does the bashing.



Just because I'm new to this site doesn't mean I'm new to tech diving. Make sure you know who you're talking to before you stick your foot in your mouth.
As I said earlier, I'm not bashing DIR, and I incorporate aspects of the system into my rig. I just don't believe one setup is right for everyone, and divers should set up their equipment in a way that's right for them, not because they were told "This is the way to do it".

By the way Aquatec, I agree that people's certification should be posted, it lets you know who you're dealing with. (I've been trimix certified for several years, am a commercial dive supervisor and gas blender).

 

[diverberr]

AquaTec once bubbled...



not only do DIR divers not evolve but they try as hard as they can to stop others from evolving by creating worthless slams about issues that are off the original topic, and personal in their attack.

this then keeps the number of non DIR divers on this baord to a minimum and they can continue to influence the new diver without any other interuptions that are based on new technologies or plain lodgic

Once again Aquatec, you've hit the nail on the head mate. Oh well, let them bash us, I can take it as well as dish it out.
It does seem to get off the topic at times though, doesn't it?
New tech divers being influenced is what's the scary part. They're not being allowed to make an informed decision based on their own and others experience. They're just having DIR rammed down their throats as if it's the only way

 

[JamesK]

diverberr once bubbled...
New tech divers being influenced is what's the scary part. They're not being allowed to make an informed decision based on their own and others experience. They're just having DIR rammed down their throats as if it's the only way

This is where I disagree with you. You say that new tech divers are having DIR rammed down their throat, and I do not feel this is so. I feel both sides of the fence are well represented on this board. I feel that you can get an opinion from both camps. The non-DIR divers explain why they do something, and then the DIR divers explain why they do not do it that way, and how and why they do it the way they do. I see no flaw in this method. No one is silencing the anti-DIR crowd. Their is no Vast DIR Wing Conspiracy to speak of. They are not deleting anti-DIR posts. They are not out picketing at LDS's like it is an abortion clinic, or a UN Summit. Maybe the anti-DIR crowd needs to speak up a little more without insulting the DIR camp and basically saying they are cramming their opinions down someones throat, or that they are not open minded. That way, the new diver can make a decision if they feel DIR is for them or not.

DIR divers do not dive DIR because they had it crammed down their throat and can not think for themselves. They dive DIR because they were open minded enough to give the system a chance even with all of the controversy and name calling that surrounds DIR, coming from both sides. They choose to dive DIR, that is where DIR divers believe personal choice comes from. You have the personal choice to dive DIR, or to not dive DIR. You can make your own decision.

 

[King Kong Matt]

JamesK once bubbled...

This is where I disagree with you. You say that new tech divers are having DIR rammed down their throat, and I do not feel this is so. I feel both sides of the fence are well represented on this board. I feel that you can get an opinion from both camps. The non-DIR divers explain why they do something, and then the DIR divers explain why they do not do it that way, and how and why they do it the way they do. I see no flaw in this method. No one is silencing the anti-DIR crowd.

Agreed.

Enough complaining about "the DIR guys" already. Why does every non-DIR diver argue this point with such a huge inferiority complex? I just don't get it...a guy you have never seen and never met sits behind a computer and types a message telling you that he's "doing it right"...and by implication, you assume that he's telling you that you are going to die if you don't do it exactly the way he does and proceed to complain that something is being rammed down your throat.

If that sounds ridiculous...BIG CLUE HERE...that's because it is.

As a non-DIR diver, I feel no obligation to either explain the reasons for the way in which I dive or apologize for my training, diving philosophy, or gear configuration...and I don't feel that I have ever been pressured by any of the DIR divers on the board to do so. In fact, most of them, when you're not attacking them with generalizations, misconceptions, or downright personal attacks, are nice guys in my opinion.

Someone tries to ram something down your throat, tell 'em to go pound sand...don't run to a self-help clinic for divers in need of a group hug "because someone on the internet was mean to me".

Puh...lease.

 

[diverberr]

Once again, I'm not bashing the DIR system. I do however have a story which may help explain why I'm against it personally.

A very safety conscious, not to mention good all-round diver (and a close friend, so it's not a passed on story) was on a dive boat with 5 DIR divers on thier way to do a 250 FSW wreck. (At this point I better state my personal feeling that every diver should be self-sufficient, not having to rely on another diver in the water, and not needing another diver nearby to make you feel comfortable in deep water. But, sometimes it's nice to just share the dive with someone else.)

While getting kitted up, the DIR crew told this diver that they wouldn't be diving with him because he wasn't DIR, wasn't a safe diver, and would be putting the rest of them at risk. So he did the dive solo, seething about the snub the whole time.

I have personally been on many deep wreck dives with this diver. I have no problem doing 300 FSW wreck dives with him. He's very safety conscious, and aware of his surroundings. On another occaision, he brought another diver who was in trouble, up from a 230 FSW dive, neither sustaining injury. He has no trouble doing deep dives solo (nor should any properly trained tech diver), but that's not the point.

My point is, and it's the reason I spoke out on the subject of DIR in the first place, :

What right did those divers have to tell an experienced, trained, safety oriented deep wreck diver that he was unsafe, and a risk to them when they didn't even know him?

I'm not saying he is, but he may have been the most experienced, best equipped, and safest diver on the boat that day.