DIR-F: March 10-11, erm, March 9-11: Part 1

[BMCG]

So is GUE - Fundamentals a course whose primary intent is to teach or is it to evaluate?

Basis the now fairly extensive library of Fundies post mortem's on Scubaboard, have developed the impression that the role of Fundies is foremost to filter and benchmark, in an intense - crammed? - weekend of activity. Skills are evaluated, those who show promise receive honing, whereas those who demonstrate a gap too far, gain guidance as to how to close it, but the close out will occur post course.

Considered taking Fundies as my first "Intro to Tech" course, but its "evaluative" reputation dissuaded. Fortunately, in its stead I found a gifted cave instructor - the agency is secondary - who was willing to work with me in developing fundamental technical skills over many sessions, spread over weeks. Challenging, correcting, critiquing - but always with an emphasis on my learning. Now this has been a quality learning experience - one that has prepped my skills to the point that I feel sufficiently "honed" for a GUE-Fundamentals evaluation...

 

[amascuba]

So is GUE - Fundamentals a course whose primary intent is to teach or is it to evaluate?

Both. Your GUE instructor will give you allot of information, demonstrate the skills, and ask you to perform the skills while he/she films you. You will then review the video with the GUE instructor pointing out what you did good and what you need to work on. If you don't perform the skills to the satisfaction of the GUE instructor during the time period allotted for the class then the GUE instructor gives you a provisional rating. The provisional rating means that you need to practice and can come back within a period of time to be re-evaluated for a full pass.

Basis the now fairly extensive library of Fundies post mortem's on Scubaboard, have developed the impression that the role of Fundies is foremost to filter and benchmark, in an intense - crammed? - weekend of activity. Skills are evaluated, those who show promise receive honing, whereas those who demonstrate a gap too far, gain guidance as to how to close it, but the close out will occur post course.

Considered taking Fundies as my first "Intro to Tech" course, but its "evaluative" reputation dissuaded. Fortunately, in its stead I found a gifted cave instructor - the agency is secondary - who was willing to work with me in developing fundamental technical skills over many sessions, spread over weeks. Challenging, correcting, critiquing - but always with an emphasis on my learning. Now this has been a quality learning experience - one that has prepped my skills to the point that I feel sufficiently "honed" for a GUE-Fundamentals evaluation...

 

[TSandM]

Fortunately, in its stead I found a gifted cave instructor - the agency is secondary - who was willing to work with me in developing fundamental technical skills over many sessions, spread over weeks. Challenging, correcting, critiquing - but always with an emphasis on my learning.

Undoubtedly the ideal way to learn these skills. Unfortunately, many people are in places where they don't have access to a cave instructor at all, and can only take Fundies either by travelling to where the instructor is, or flying him in. That means that what can be an enormous amount of material has to be covered in a very short time. I'm convinced that there aren't many people who can go from ordinary OW skills to the Fundies standard in one weekend. Provisionals are the rule rather than the exception, but I stand as living proof that it is possible for even the weakest Fundies student to pull their act together if they really want to.

 

[Carribeandiver]

... Buoyancy control takes TIME to develop. Yeah, you work on it, but it doesn't come with a snap of the fingers and there's no magic bullet to fix it. I'm at about 300 dives now and still working constantly on mine...

This is my absolute last comment. Enough has been said and I have whinned enough. I wish to point out I am aware those skills require a significant amount of practice; however, we did not work on them at all -- Zero, zip, nada. He just watched as I struggled and then as I gained some measure of control, he pointed for me to come forward and signaled for me to do some flutter kicks. Watching the video he said, see you have decent trim while swimming.
Ha, a boat with holes will look good zipping along, try letting it sit idle and watch for the list.
As I said, everyone seems to imply Mark is a good teacher, my experience made me feel otherwise. It could be a connection problem, it could be 100% my fault and problem. Either way, I intend to seek another instructor if I take the course again.

 

[edparris]

$25 for the slides? Screw that, especially after paying $450 for the course.

$450 is a total bargain.

Here's how I figure it:

My fundies class was 4 days; 7am -11pm. That's a total of 64 hours of good solid instruction. Assuming the instructor was able to book the class full (6 students) then the total income is $2700. That's a maximum of $42/hr based on time spent directly with the students.

Now reality sets in. Maybe the class isn't full or the instructor can't teach fundies every weekend. How many hours went into study keeping up on current dive technique and honing skills? What were the instructor's expenses? (gas, travel, lodging, etc.) These guys are not making big bucks teaching us how to dive safely.

Anyway I don't mean to flame you but when you look at the big picture the course really is very cheap for the time investment.

 

[TSandM]

I know what you mean, Ed. I figured I paid about $10/hr for the instruction during Fundies, which is about the cheapest professional instruction in anything I've taken in years. Rec Triox worked out to about $18 an hour. It's amazing these guys will work for that little money -- I won't!

 

[Carribeandiver]

64 hours? how about 28 hours for my course. 8 till 5 Fri, 8 till 6 Sat, 8 till 5 Sun and that's getting paid while at lunch.

 

[Jason B]

64 hours? how about 28 hours for my course. 8 till 5 Fri, 8 till 6 Sat, 8 till 5 Sun and that's getting paid while at lunch.

That works out to about $16 an hour. I'm not sure how it works, but didn't you have 2 instructors? I guess one made $16 and hour and the other worked for free. Or maybe they split it and each guy made a tad over minimum wage at $8 an hour each.

 

[amascuba]

Not to mention that $30 goes to GUE for processing.

 

[Carribeandiver]

A. he got a grand for two students. One weekend = one grand.
B. the asst got zip; only experience needed to earn his instructor status
C. the 30 bucks to GUE was extra, thanks for reminding me.
D. even if I was alone and the instructor only earned 500 bucks for the 28 hours generously calculated, your math is faulty.
D. most importantly, I didnt give a hoot about the cost, counting the trip, hotel, meals, new gear, tuition, misc fees, I paid lots more than the 500 bucks for the course. I just wanted something besides what I got.
E. reading what other students got only confirms my feeling that my course was too short and not productive. This started by one person's account of his two weekend course where he received materials in advance, homework, pool sessions and a subsequent weekend of diving. It continued with one person's account of four 7 am till 11pm days of training.
F. I dont care if it balances out to $10 an hour or $100 an hour, if I had gotten what I could call good instruction, I would be thrilled. If money was the big deal, I would not have taken it, period.
G. my investment had been way more than money. I used to really enjoy diving, loved seeing the beauty of it all. Since the course I only practice dive in a pool and to be honest, diving is just not fun anymore.
H. why would you think it was about money? But, by your measuring stick and statements that the instructors are working for peanuts, I say hogwash. A thousand bucks for a weekend aint bad, I dont care what your profession is (unless you are a pro athlete). And I would bet that most of his classes have more than 2 students which only increases that weekend total. As for travel, the instructor lived in the town where the course was. I was the one who traveled not the instructor so forget his expenses, they were lunch, at most.
I. what he earns is not the point. good for him if he can make $5000 a weekend, it doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is the value I receive in return.
J. I am convinced DIR diving is a superior way to dive. I am convinced most of their philosophy is superior to the methods taught by conventional agencies. And for that reason I still wear the BP/W even though I would be more comfortable and most certainly a better diver if I used my old scubapro glideplus jacket. I am not convinced the course is jump in, get pointed at to perform a skill then surface to watch it on video.
and I keep saying this is my last comment. I know I am alone in my opinion but I was there, I have an actual, honest account of what transpired and in my opinion, the instructor could have and should have done a better job.