I witnessed Uncle Pug doing a reverse kick with my Atomic Aquatic Splits (now retired) at Edmond's some time ago. He was doing it as-is, no tape.NWGratefulDiver:
I didn't say it was a good reverse kick, but it was being done.
DIR-F Lite - "Essentials of Diving"
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I didn't say it was a good reverse kick, but it was being done.
JeffG
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I just checked the website.partridge:
Class is only for Non-Smokers
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JeffG:
That's funny! :rofl:
StSomewhere
Contributor
Jonnythan certainly doesn't need me to jump in and defend him (and he and I have had a difference of opinion once or twice), but...partridge:
He is 100% on the mark. If the truth hurts it should.
PADI OW divers aren't taught proper trim, buoyancy, non-silting kicks, nada. Even the weighting calculation IMO is suspect. PADI practically invented teaching scuba while kneeling at the bottom of the pool or in the sand. In no way is a typical PADI-trained OW diver remotely prepared for "real" diving. I've personally seen a few instructors from some other agencies churn out the same level of unskilled divers (coughcoughSSIcoughcough) but PADI far and away turns them out in the greatest numbers IMO. How do I know? I was one, that's how.
Ask yourself why even garden variety recreational divers are clamoring to take on DIR-F, knowing they won't pass? Some people want to be better divers. Up to now, taking on GUE's DIR-F has been the only path to that goal. IMO, 5thd-x is just adding a slightly different path toward that same goal.
BTW, I know of a few NAUI instructors like jbd (anyone know whatever happened to Jim?) and NWGD that have incorporated key parts of DIR-F into their BOW and AOW courses. In the 5thd-x Rec 1 course, AG has gone one step farther and adds EAN with a total single tank DIR emphasis and includes full DIR gear rentals in the cost, the goal being an OW diver with actual diving skills. GUE seems to be doing something similar with their BOW course. It's a nice switch when the demand for quality training actually drives the marketplace.
The reason why Partridge is defensive is because the PADI bashing is a direct assault on the agency that he instructs for. We would feel the same way if someone abused us.
While I agree with Jon and Stsomewhere's points (myself having gone through PADI OW and AOW). I think perhaps we can understand the defensive posture when someone refers to DIR advocates, as mindless koolaide drinking lemmings - right CIB?
While I agree with Jon and Stsomewhere's points (myself having gone through PADI OW and AOW). I think perhaps we can understand the defensive posture when someone refers to DIR advocates, as mindless koolaide drinking lemmings - right CIB?
StSomewhere:
Well, it still boils down to "It's the instructor, stupid". If YOUR instructor didn't teach you trim, buoyancy, and non-silting kicks, then that's his/your fault. My PADI instructor taught me the frog kick first, and then the modified flutter kick. He also worked with me on my trim and buoyancy control.
I personally have witnessed several instructors from other agencies that teach the confined water portion of the training by having students kneel in the pool.
Ok. Let me put this to rest. The part that got me is specific reference to PADI. I believe that all open water courses taught to minimum standards produce about the same diver. Anything above this is instructor discretion. I also believe that none of these students are ready for tech 1 training. Yes I admit that PADI has some shortcomings in training but I feel that instructors can make up for this. I have nothing against PADI in this regard as I run a business too. They may feel comfortable with releasing these type of divers but I do not. This is why I dislike generalizations. The umbrella is too wide.
If my OW instructor didn't teach me non-silting kicks, or polish my buoyancy, how is that MY fault? At that point, I didn't know such things existed. I was trying to survive underwater in a confusing and fairly hostile environment.
Frankly, if I hadn't been told about Scubaboard, the only thing I would have heard about DIR was that it was a bunch of cultists that came out of a single cave-diving project in Florida (my instructor's phrase). I would never have met NW Grateful Diver, or Uncle Pug, or JasonH20 -- I would never have read all the DIR-F reports, and realized that somebody, somewhere, was teaching the things I had figured out I wanted and needed to know, in the way I wanted to be taught.
I wish I had access to a DIR-Essentials course. Instead, I'm taking DIR-F in November, and understand that I will fail. It's kind of hard to go into something knowing that. I wish they divided the course, at least for people like me . . . introduce the skills and let you practice them, and come back six months later to test. Sounds like this is what AG has put together, and it sounds good to me. I cannot be the only PADI-certified diver who feels she has holes in her skills that need to be fixed for safety and improved enjoyment.
I don't know if an GUE-OW course would fly. I think maybe you have to go through the usual course, at the usual cost, and during it or subsequently realize that you were taught "diving lite" and there was more out there to learn and to do.
Frankly, if I hadn't been told about Scubaboard, the only thing I would have heard about DIR was that it was a bunch of cultists that came out of a single cave-diving project in Florida (my instructor's phrase). I would never have met NW Grateful Diver, or Uncle Pug, or JasonH20 -- I would never have read all the DIR-F reports, and realized that somebody, somewhere, was teaching the things I had figured out I wanted and needed to know, in the way I wanted to be taught.
I wish I had access to a DIR-Essentials course. Instead, I'm taking DIR-F in November, and understand that I will fail. It's kind of hard to go into something knowing that. I wish they divided the course, at least for people like me . . . introduce the skills and let you practice them, and come back six months later to test. Sounds like this is what AG has put together, and it sounds good to me. I cannot be the only PADI-certified diver who feels she has holes in her skills that need to be fixed for safety and improved enjoyment.
I don't know if an GUE-OW course would fly. I think maybe you have to go through the usual course, at the usual cost, and during it or subsequently realize that you were taught "diving lite" and there was more out there to learn and to do.
Unfortunately there are not a lot of instructors like yourself that look at the agency instructions as minimums and that's where you start. The norm seems to be that instructors rise only and teach those minimum standards that are set forth by the certifying agency. I have seen many a DM that knows only what he or she has been trained. Those that branch out into more tech style of diving before becoming instructors generally have a much larger bag of skills to hand off to their students. Also they have much higher expectations of their students because they themselves have not climaxed their own diving education.
It's all very well complaining about the agencies....any of them. The simple fact is that without the OW certification hardly anyone would learn to dive at all, so hardly anyone would realize that they can improve and learn more - and GUE would have virtually no-one to put through DIR-F. I'm guessing but I would say it's a fair bet that the majority of people who have taken DIR-F actually started with PADI OW. As Uncle Rick once pointed out to me - it's only because so many people do OW that there is enough business to support the infrastructure that most of us need to be able to dive at all.
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