DIR & Dive Computers

[devjr]

Brady, the dive computer is nothing less than a miracle. I dove for 16 years without one. In 1971, while making multi level dives in Cozumel to depths between 100-260 feet I began to feel my days were numbered. I had no idea how to apply the USN tables in that complex, multilevel situation. My Mexican friends, including guides from Aqua Safari, could not help. They had never seen a set of tables, but showed intense interest in those I carried with me. Their procedures and practices were rule of thumb only.

That year, I bought a SCUBAPRO DCP and I used those instruments for many years without a serious problem. (There were two, I think, in water failures wherein I aborted the dive). The advantage of computers is that they can increase bottom time by continuous integration of time and depth. Complex dives are no problem, they just sit there and calculate. They never get bored, inattentive or forgetful. Lately, I invested in a "Resource" computer for air only. I haven't used it yet but it has gotten good reviews. I like the looks of it because it is compact, has a plain graphic like my old DCP which even I can understand. This meter is much more conservative than the navy tables which the DCP approximates and it suggests to me that the calculated dive profile and prescribed time and ascent rate should be safe for just about anyone.

You sound like a novice diver. If so, you need to get some more diversified experience and opinions over time. If you intend to join up with some DIR cave divers, suggest you get the training AFTER you become an experienced open water diver. By then, you will be in a position to compare the different requirements and understand why the DIR people do what they do.

 

[svs3]

As a DIR newbie, I think Tomcat's explaination of computers and DIR is right on target; arguments about additional failure points not withstanding.

Sam

 

[Lost Yooper]

I use an old Uwatec Aladin Pro basically a timer for technical dives. My take on the whole thing is that most computers are way too conservative and based on out-dated formulas not relevant to technical diving (ie, multiple gasses, deep stops). I beleive there are some decent computers out there (Green Menelishi named a couple), but the reliability issues are still there for advanced diving -- not to mention high costs.
I'm not an expert on dive computers, but for my type of diving I'll use custom tables and get out of the water faster and safer and without having to rely on a gizmo. For regular ole no deco reef dives, I don't personnaly see a problem with computers. The larger issue on the subject is learning about how real decompression works and adopt it to your diving (deep stops area good start).

As for George Irvine's views on computers and recreational diving, he knows real decompression and his own tolerances so well, that he doesn't need a computer for most dives. He can even do it in his head for more extremly complex dives. It helps he was the guinea pig for all of it. I believe he would rather see the agencies teaching real deco well enough for everyone to do the same. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but am just adding to the discussion.

Take care.

 

[Dr Deco]

Dear readers:

Please remember that computers do not factor in the formation of nuclei by maneuvers such as straining, climbing ladders, lifting tanks, etc. We have found in NASA experiments that these activities are extremely important variables during the deco part of the series. :boom:

Dr Deco

 

[jmsdiver]

If computers are not advocated, what tables are used?? The DSAT (rec) tables many organizations use are not appropriate for deco dive plans as they don't include those stops. Do those that advocate tables and deco-diving use the Navy tables for planning their dives? Or are there other tables that the organization advocates? There is nothing that is stated on the GUE site as to what is used in their courses. Please direct me to a reference. Tanks.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The WKPP generates its own custom tables. I'm not sure what software they use, but they are probably well versed in all of the current programs and use the one that best suits the dive in question.
Rick

 

[svs3]

I think that most WKPP divers use either GUE's Decoplanner or the Abyss software. In addition to the US Navy tables, the NOAA nitrox table contain deco tables. These are the tables I use for most of my non-mix diving. On the the rare occasion the I needed something else I use either of the above two software packages.

svs3

 

[scubabunny]

I think the biggest problem is that new divers don't realize that DIR is meant for Technical cave diving. I didn't realize that until I read the WKPP website tonight. I thought it was just a configuration deal...alot of which made sense.

But, the website reads like a bible. So, new divers think this is the way it should be. You HAVE to do things this way...and HAVE to put things here, cause that's how WE do things..so that is the correct way. Which, for people who dive for fun, that just adds more stress to everything

Air integrated computers are not good for Cave diving, because if your computer dies, you can not got directly to the surface, and you have no idea how much air you have left...which can cause a "minor" problem! But, you can have good gear comfiguration (to take care of yourself and you buddy) while doing Recreational diving, and still use an air-integrated computer, right?

Question...IS there a Tri-Mix computer? I thought the NiTek3 was, but that doesn't compute Helium. Is there such an animal?

 

[Frog]

Scubabunny DIR is NOT just for cave divers, check out http://www.dis-uk.org Although the WKPP website is about cave diving and DIR. They have to be so "rigid" in saying this is how we do it, because of the obvious risks associated with cave diving, not to mention very deep cave penetration as in the WKPP. Only recently has DIR been brought to newer divers and ocean divers so they can benefit from the added safety of DIR diving. If you dont want to dive DIR in openwater then thats fine. But like i have said before most people dont dive everyday of the week. If you happen to dive in caves then you want the exact same setup that you use in the caves when you go for an openwater dive. This is so you dont have to attempt to get to grips with 2 types of gear configs. Now when your in that cave and if something gos wrong your gear is located at exactly the same places as it would be for ANY other dive. "The WKPP site reads like a bible" Too right it does and for good reason, almost ALL cave divers standerdise there gear and thoughts no matter which agency or mindset they use.

Someone said something about computers always fail. This may be a true statement but DIVING computers certainly dont fail anywhere near as much as most people make out. Although yes they can fail. But you are all missing the point a bit here i think. DIR divers and especially those at the WKPP use Uwatec digital bottom timers which provide them with a dive timer, ascent rate meter, depth, etc. The only thing it doesnt do is calculate nitrogen in a divers body, they use tables for that. Its got nothing to do with the fact that "computers fail" its to do with the fact that computers are not flexible enough for the diving that the WKPP teams do.

PS: sorry for going off on a tangent there heheh. Also for any trained DIR divers, i apologise for my limited knowledge of DIR. Hope i didnt upset any one while typing this either. If anything is incorrect then sayso, but please dont start getting personal, all i ask is that things are kept civil. Cheers

 

[100days-a-year]

ScubaBunny,The Abyss & VR3 I mentioned earlier are the only mixed gas computers on the market.There are some multiple mix nitrox computers ,but they can't deal with helium.They are all very expensive.Realise that the WKPP guys have access to funds(personal and otherwise) that makes this point moot.They chose to dive the way they do because of safety.There is no other motivation,no iconoclastic overbearing overlord forces this.It is a choice based on experience.