DIR and the canister light: newbie questions

[Lorenzoid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vokTyHnHL5o

Bil Phillips channel has a bunch more.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bilphillips/videos

My present question aside, those are very useful videos--thanks! As for my present question, the videos seem to show the diver's fingers wrapped around both the crossbar part of the Goodman handle and the crossbar or handle part of the reel. In other words, the Goodman handle and reel handle are held back-to-back with each other. It occurs to me that in this position, with the light pointed forward, the eye of the reel (through which the line exits) is facing downward toward the floor, with the line passing through the eye at a 90 degree angle. Is that really okay? I thought the eye was supposed to face in the direction of the line? To put it another way, I was under the (mistaken?) impression that while laying or retrieving line in a cavern, the eye should be kept facing toward the cavern entrance. Did I read too much into what I thought was taught? So it is okay* for the line to make a 90 degree bend at the eye of the reel?

*When I ask if it's "okay," I mean "If I someday find myself in a Cave 1 class, is the instructor going to tell me to do it a different way?" I realize that a 90-degree bend is not likely to abrade the line significantly or cause any other problem. But is it the the right way?

 

[TSandM]

This is really the kind of thing that's better handled in person, but I'll try to help. I find keeping the light perfectly oriented forward and running the reel to be difficult. If I am leading, I generally compromise, so that the light may be aimed a little off straight forward, and the line may be leaving the slot at a bit of an angle. It hasn't seemed to cause any problems.

If I am reeling OUT, I figure my buddies are smart enough to realize that, if the line remains taut and my light is visible somewhere behind them, even if it's off kilter or moving, I'm fine. If I were suddenly to disappear or lose consciousness, I wouldn't be keeping the line taut.

BTW, I agree with you about the width and depth of Goodman handles. That's the one thing that would make me buy a new Halcyon light, is the adjustable handle they've come up with.

 

[LiteHedded]

five pages on how to hold a flashlight is scubaboard at it's finest! love it!

 

[Lorenzoid]

five pages on how to hold a flashlight is scubaboard at it's finest! love it!

I love it, too. But I'm being serious. Both my wife and I are trying to learn to use a primary light and a reel together, and we both find it quite difficult. It's difficult to grip these things together in the same hand in a way that keeps the light pointed ahead and also doesn't impede use of the reel. I was taught that when laying line, one should keep a finger against the reel to keep it from birdnesting, and I find that very difficult/uncomfortable to do while holding the Goodman handle AND the reel handle. While I might be able to think of ways to mitigate these difficulties, either through uncomfortable contortions of my hand or by modifying the handle, I don't want to do something that's later going to be criticized if and when I take Cave 1, or by fellow divers. But from these replies, I am beginning to believe there is no "right" way to do it. It appears to be a case of "do what works for you."

 

[LiteHedded]

I love it, too. But I'm being serious. Both my wife and I are trying to learn to use a primary light and a reel together, and we both find it quite difficult. It's difficult to grip these things together in the same hand in a way that keeps the light pointed ahead and also doesn't impede use of the reel. I was taught that when laying line, one should keep a finger against the reel to keep it from birdnesting, and I find that very difficult/uncomfortable to do while holding the Goodman handle AND the reel handle. While I might be able to think of ways to mitigate these difficulties, either through uncomfortable contortions of my hand or by modifying the handle, I don't want to do something that's later going to be criticized if and when I take Cave 1, or by fellow divers. But from these replies, I am beginning to believe there is no "right" way to do it. It appears to be a case of "do what works for you."

cave 1 is where they're going to teach this to you. It will be just fine

 

[JohnnyC]

LiteHedded is right. You'll learn in the course. Better to learn the right way, than spend a day having to unlearn bad habits. I'm a big fan of making my buddy share the work. "YOU. LIGHT. THERE." Easy way to get illumination where you need it so you can correctly do the reel work that you need. Don't half-ass two things. Whole ass one thing. If the situation dictates. Remember, every cave is different. What works in one cave might not work in another.

 

[Lorenzoid]

cave 1 is where they're going to teach this to you. It will be just fine

LiteHedded is right. You'll learn in the course. Better to learn the right way, than spend a day having to unlearn bad habits. I'm a big fan of making my buddy share the work. "YOU. LIGHT. THERE." Easy way to get illumination where you need it so you can correctly do the reel work that you need. Don't half-ass two things. Whole ass one thing. If the situation dictates. Remember, every cave is different. What works in one cave might not work in another.

I know, I know, but .... Okay, here's the back story. I think I am not exactly a gifted dive student. You should read my Fundies report--it took a LOT of practice after the initial fiasco of a class to get myself just a Rec pass. So, while I am aiming for someday taking Cave 1 (I don't even have a Tech pass yet), I thought in the meantime I would take a Cavern course. The Cavern instructor I chose happens to be TDI, but I don't think that's relevant. Anyway, my thinking behind taking Cavern was that I am darned well not going to let Cave 1 be the first time I have experienced being in a N. FL cavern, or for that matter, the first time I have used a light and reel together. I had a heck of a difficult time in that Cavern class, fumbling all over the place with the reel and the light, at one point getting all tangled in the line I was laying. The instructor was rightly reluctant to give my wife and me passes. So, we are spending some time trying to practice what we were supposed to have learned in Cavern. There was a lot to cover in that 2-day class, and there just wasn't time to dwell on minutiae like how to best hold the Goodman handle and the reel. We just figured we would get used to it, but we have since found that we haven't--it's as difficult now as it was in class. Moreover, we suspected that even if we had taken the time to sort this out with the instructor, whatever way our instructor might have showed us, a GUE instructor is probably going to show us something slightly different. Anyway, we decided after the Cavern class that we would just save up our questions about the light and reel and ask on SB, since, as LiteHedded pointed out (sarcastically), this kind of minutiae is just the kind of thing that gets discussed on SB.

As we discovered after initially earning provisional Rec passes in Fundies, we learn best when we take what was taught in class and go out on our own to practice it, without the time pressures of a class. I think now is the time for us to do that with what was taught in our Cavern class, not after we have attempted Cave 1 and gotten only provisional passes (or worse). Not to get too off-topic, but we very well might even take Intro to Cave before attempting Cave 1. When the time comes to take Cave 1, I want to be as prepared as I can possibly be. I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy, and my wife is a, well, you get the point. I don't want a repeat of the fiasco that was our first Fundies class.

 

[johnkendall]

I know, I know, but .... Okay, here's the back story. I think I am not exactly a gifted dive student. You should read my Fundies report--it took a LOT of practice after the initial fiasco of a class to get myself just a Rec pass. So, while I am aiming for someday taking Cave 1 (I don't even have a Tech pass yet), I thought in the meantime I would take a Cavern course. The Cavern instructor I chose happens to be TDI, but I don't think that's relevant. Anyway, my thinking behind taking Cavern was that I am darned well not going to let Cave 1 be the first time I have experienced being in a N. FL cavern, or for that matter, the first time I have used a light and reel together. I had a heck of a difficult time in that Cavern class, fumbling all over the place with the reel and the light, at one point getting all tangled in the line I was laying. The instructor was rightly reluctant to give my wife and me passes. So, we are spending some time trying to practice what we were supposed to have learned in Cavern. There was a lot to cover in that 2-day class, and there just wasn't time to dwell on minutiae like how to best hold the Goodman handle and the reel. We just figured we would get used to it, but we have since found that we haven't--it's as difficult now as it was in class. Moreover, we suspected that even if we had taken the time to sort this out with the instructor, whatever way our instructor might have showed us, a GUE instructor is probably going to show us something slightly different. Anyway, we decided after the Cavern class that we would just save up our questions about the light and reel and ask on SB, since, as LiteHedded pointed out (sarcastically), this kind of minutiae is just the kind of thing that gets discussed on SB.

As we discovered after initially earning provisional Rec passes in Fundies, we learn best when we take what was taught in class and go out on our own to practice it, without the time pressures of a class. I think now is the time for us to do that with what was taught in our Cavern class, not after we have attempted Cave 1 and gotten only provisional passes (or worse). Not to get too off-topic, but we very well might even take Intro to Cave before attempting Cave 1. When the time comes to take Cave 1, I want to be as prepared as I can possibly be. I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy, and my wife is a, well, you get the point. I don't want a repeat of the fiasco that was our first Fundies class.

My advice (as a GUE Cave instructor) is don't do an intro course first. Practice your fundamentals skills (and just the fundamentals skills) until they are second nature and automatic. Then if you want to try and get a little ahead of the game for a GUE Cave1 employ a GUE Instructor for a day or two to do a line laying workshop.

Hth
John

 

[huwporter]

Not the greatest picture due to limitations of taking a hand-selfie, but here is a starting point for you. You can just see on the far side of the reel, two or three of the smaller fingers rest on the rim as a brake to keep the tension on the line. But do get someone who knows what they are doing to show you properly...



Cheers,
Huw

 

[JohnnyC]

Since you're having issues, let's rethink the whole training matrix for a minute. There's nothing that says you have to learn the skills by taking a rigorously structured course where the end goal is a card every time. Courses get you c-cards, but your skills are what allows you to complete those courses. The catch-22 is obviously you need some instruction to obtain those skills. However, there's nothing that says you can't ask an instructor to spend a training day working with you on specific skills you might want to know, outside of a structured course. You're still getting top notch training, just with a more esoteric goal than a piece of plastic. I think far too often people think that training must lead to some tangible validation, and forget that sometimes you don't get a pretty certificate for learning, it's the knowledge itself that is the reward.

Call up your local GUE/TDI/IANTD instructor and offer to buy them lunch. Sit down with them and tell them what you've told us in your last post. I have a hard time believing that they won't immediately offer to mentor you. Many instructors will train based on a daily rate instead of by certification. They do this in case you need remediation, so you don't get to day 8 of full cave only to be told you're not walking away with a cave ticket, and they don't get suckered into giving you $5000 worth of training for $2000 because you can't get it together. It's not PADI, you pay for the instruction, and if at the end of that instruction you meet standards, then you get a card as a happy coincidence. A good instructor will quickly figure out your deficiencies and steer you on course, whether it's towards an actual course like Intro to Cave, or it's a couple weeks worth of pool sessions and OW dives with a very singular purpose.

In this specific instance, I have no doubt an instructor would jump at a day of line and reel work alone if that's what you feel you need to work on. The benefit of advanced training through agencies like GUE/TDI/IANTD is that they can do that sort of mentorship. It may cost you $250 for a training day, and you're not going to get a card out of it, but at this level it's the actual training that's the important part. Who cares if you don't get a line laying and reel work distinctive specialty, when at the end of the day you're going to have the foundation to deliver those skills when you finally do take Cave 1 or Intro to Cave. Again, the knowledge is the reward, don't get tricked into thinking that you're diving for a card.