DIR and Spearfishing

[matts1w]

On 280 foot deep wreck dives, I would always use 9 mm powerheads, as I have no intention of working or fighting with an 80 pound fish at depth..and Pat Frain always used to say it was more humane to use a powerhead, than to let the fish struggle on the spear It was amazing how humane Pat Frain or Frank Hammet could be with a few dozen 9mm apiece, and a full day of spearfishing

Obviously that would not be DIR anymore...more like DIAL or Doing It Against the Law.

 

[DanLVolker]

Obviously that would not be DIR anymore...more like DIAL or Doing It Against the Law.

The law does not typically enter in to what is the "smartest way" to do something on a dive...As to morality, my shooting one or two fish for my own consumption ( with friends & family) with a 9mm powerhead is "more moral" than buying fish from Publix, when you know a hundred fiosh were killed and thrown away, for every 10 they were able to sell--not to mention the lack of selection the netting represents.

Also, you are typically well beyond the 3 mile limit on tech spearfishing dives off of Jupiter, and most of the deep wrecks with big fish...but the law in this case, is not about what is "right", instead, it is the result of actions of fisherman and the large lobbying effort they undertook.

In any event, I am talking about optimal proceedures, and doing things that are fun and functional...I could care less what the big dive agency position is on spearfishing--I hope you guys see the hypocracy of the dive industry and spearfishing--its enough to make you want to puke! I was not saying that in order to be spearfishing DIR, you have to use powerheads....for 40 or 50 pound fish and below, you can stone a fish with a well placed spear without powerhead. an arguement could be made you do not "want" an 80 pound fish or bigger, so may never need a powerhead...I did think the comments I made anout powerheads were amusing, which is why they were included.
DanV

 

[matts1w]

The law does not typically enter in to what is the "smartest way" to do something on a dive...As to morality, my shooting one or two fish for my own consumption ( with friends & family) with a 9mm powerhead is "more moral" than buying fish from Publix, when you know a hundred fiosh were killed and thrown away, for every 10 they were able to sell--not to mention the lack of selection the netting represents.

I do not disagree with you for even a minute concerning the morality of commercial fishing vs. harvesting fish with a powerhead...at least as far as commercial fishing being sickening.

I also understand that spearfishing with He and deco schedules is a completely different world with its own set of unique issues. Dragging huge, bloody fish from 250 ft. with Mr. Graysuit following and a long deco schedule would be no fun at all.

I know you guys who do technical spearfishng are a very small number and do not even make the smallest dent in the grouper populations off Florida. None the less, we will have to simply disagree with the use of powerheads for harvest. From a pragmatic position I completely see your point. I just think giving the fish huggers more ammo (pardon the pun) is a bad idea. I also think leaders in the dive culture should follow local laws. I spearfish deep (100-145) wrecks off Fort Myers Beach on a regular basis. I simply make it policy that if I am not comfortable with the size of my target I let it go. Perhaps it is better to allow that monster black grouper to keep its DNA in circulation anyway. By the way, I do carry a powerhead.

Peace.

 

[DanLVolker]

I do not disagree with you for even a minute concerning the morality of commercial fishing vs. harvesting fish with a powerhead...at least as far as commercial fishing being sickening.

I also understand that spearfishing with He and deco schedules is a completely different world with its own set of unique issues. Dragging huge, bloody fish from 250 ft. with Mr. Graysuit following and a long deco schedule would be no fun at all.

I know you guys who do technical spearfishng are a very small number and do not even make the smallest dent in the grouper populations off Florida. None the less, we will have to simply disagree with the use of powerheads for harvest. From a pragmatic position I completely see your point. I just think giving the fish huggers more ammo (pardon the pun) is a bad idea. I also think leaders in the dive culture should follow local laws. I spearfish deep (100-145) wrecks off Fort Myers Beach on a regular basis. I simply make it policy that if I am not comfortable with the size of my target I let it go. Perhaps it is better to allow that monster black grouper to keep its DNA in circulation anyway. By the way, I do carry a powerhead.

Peace.

Good perspective. In fact, I no longer hunt for monster fish--that was something I did back in the 90's...As it turns out, the really big fish don't usually end up being good to eat, compared to the 25 -35 pound versions, and I do like seeing the monsters

So, while I mention the powerheading, it is more due to my distaste for dive industry hypocracy, than for any suggestion that they should be used. Which is to say I have not used a powerhead on a spearfishing dive now for at least 8 years now...there has been no need to, and no desire to. Talking or joking about them feels good though, sort of contrarian

On a similar vein...look at what the dive industry "is" pushing. Every diver on a charter boat wants to be a photographer now...it's the "in" thing to do when diving. Lots more money for the industry, more reason to get additional PADI specialties, blah, blah , blah.....Now it is not that photography is bad--it is just that you have something of a charicature when there are 12 people on a dive boat with cameras, each rabidly pursuing the "perfect-shot", maximally stressing over whether they have the optimal settings or composition---and while all this is going on, the actual "EXPERIENCE" of diving is escaping them. When they see the monster jewfish, they are not actualy interacting with it---they are missing the experience, as they are thinking only about the steps required to get the perfect shot. Later, on the dock, there will be 12 divers with hundreds of photos just taken, all wanting to find someone to experience the diving that THEY DID NOT REALLY EXPERIENCE THEMSELVES!!! And in many cases, no one will want to look at Joe Schmoes pictures again for the 1000th time....
Yes there are great photographers that bring the underwater world to all of us, in a great way...but this push to make each of us a photographer is bogus. I like the "connection" you get when you plug yourself in to the underwater world, and interact with the marine life as if you are a member of this world. When I am spearfishing, I am interacting with the marine life in exactly the same manner the marine life interacts--all marine life can be said to be hunting each day of their lives. I can enjoy hunting for many days without ever shooting anything--the hunting is getting plugged in to the body movements, to the mental connections, to the entire system. But every once in a while, I will shoot a fish that will become dinner for myself and friends. And the "real" law of the ocean, Nature, accepts this, and demands it.

Regards,
DanV

 

[Scubakevdm]

Good perspective. In fact, I no longer hunt for monster fish--that was something I did back in the 90's...As it turns out, the really big fish don't usually end up being good to eat, compared to the 25 -35 pound versions, and I do like seeing the monsters

So, while I mention the powerheading, it is more due to my distaste for dive industry hypocracy, than for any suggestion that they should be used. Which is to say I have not used a powerhead on a spearfishing dive now for at least 8 years now...there has been no need to, and no desire to. Talking or joking about them feels good though, sort of contrarian

On a similar vein...look at what the dive industry "is" pushing. Every diver on a charter boat wants to be a photographer now...it's the "in" thing to do when diving. Lots more money for the industry, more reason to get additional PADI specialties, blah, blah , blah.....Now it is not that photography is bad--it is just that you have something of a charicature when there are 12 people on a dive boat with cameras, each rabidly pursuing the "perfect-shot", maximally stressing over whether they have the optimal settings or composition---and while all this is going on, the actual "EXPERIENCE" of diving is escaping them. When they see the monster jewfish, they are not actualy interacting with it---they are missing the experience, as they are thinking only about the steps required to get the perfect shot. Later, on the dock, there will be 12 divers with hundreds of photos just taken, all wanting to find someone to experience the diving that THEY DID NOT REALLY EXPERIENCE THEMSELVES!!! And in many cases, no one will want to look at Joe Schmoes pictures again for the 1000th time....
Yes there are great photographers that bring the underwater world to all of us, in a great way...but this push to make each of us a photographer is bogus. I like the "connection" you get when you plug yourself in to the underwater world, and interact with the marine life as if you are a member of this world. When I am spearfishing, I am interacting with the marine life in exactly the same manner the marine life interacts--all marine life can be said to be hunting each day of their lives. I can enjoy hunting for many days without ever shooting anything--the hunting is getting plugged in to the body movements, to the mental connections, to the entire system. But every once in a while, I will shoot a fish that will become dinner for myself and friends. And the "real" law of the ocean, Nature, accepts this, and demands it.

Regards,
DanV

There are some that would argue that getting close enough to a big skittish fish to take a good picture requires a better connection than getting close enough to take a shot with a speargun.

 

[diver 85]

I made a post elsewhere and began to think that perhaps I was "painting with too broad a brush." So let me throw these questions out here as I am very curious:

Do any of you guys spearfish? Is it possible to spearfish and stay within the DIR structure? Does GUE address underwater hunting and offer configurations, procedures, etc...?

Thanks for your responses in advance.

Just guessing here but I would think spearfishing would be very anti-DIR--mainly due to the attitudes of doing everything perfectly(spearfishing can get a little messy & a little improvising @ times....lol).......The only configurations we have while spearfishing is don't get outside the rig legs in a bad current, Cuba is a long ways away.....

 

[DanLVolker]

There are some that would argue that getting close enough to a big skittish fish to take a good picture requires a better connection than getting close enough to take a shot with a speargun.

I would call what you are describing, "HUNTING".

Getting close to the big skittish fish with camera or gun is similar--although many big fish know a big speargun is a threat--"fish to fish" body position awareness dynamics...and the camera is unlikely to be percieved as a similar threat...but you are still involved in hunting--and this part is fun, with no need to hurt the fish.

Of course, a majority of photos shot will be requiring much less of a connection or hunting skill, particulaly the seascapes and the macro...
Regards,
DanV

 

[Scubakevdm]

I would call what you are describing, "HUNTING".

the camera is unlikely to be percieved as a similar threat...but you are still involved in hunting--and this part is fun, with no need to hurt the fish.

I don't know. Cameras seem to be pretty scarry to fish... maybe they think they're giant eyes. I agree though... it's the approach that makes it fun.

 

[JeffG]

Just guessing here but I would think spearfishing would be very anti-DIR--mainly due to the attitudes of doing everything perfectly(spearfishing can get a little messy & a little improvising @ times....lol)

Then I would guess that you would be wrong.

 

[nadwidny]

Just guessing here but I would think spearfishing would be very anti-DIR--mainly due to the attitudes of doing everything perfectly(spearfishing can get a little messy & a little improvising @ times....lol).......The only configurations we have while spearfishing is don't get outside the rig legs in a bad current, Cuba is a long ways away.....

I'm guessing you don't really understand anything about DIR.