Dilemma, how to handle?

[archman]

The misgivings you're reporting about this diver are quite believable to me. If her 25 or so dives were in catered tropical settings she may very well not be up on fundamentals. Her gear could have picked out by her LDS; her dives strictly managed by watchdog DM's (and her equipment also set up and broken down for her). We all know that it's pretty stinking hard to fail your OW class... 'specially if the instructor "helps".

I personally know more than a couple divers who fit the same competency profile you're describing cyklon. They only dive in the pool and in Cozumel. I'll dive with 'em, but I pretty much babysit them... both above and below the water. I have a lot of patience. Helps if they're cute too.

 

[OneBrightGator]

What about giving her some of the responsibility for the dive, such as having her pick the site, then ask her where at the site she wants to dive, how deep, for how long and so on. Kind of leave it up to her to show herself she's not really qualified.

Ben

 

[Bob3]

Heck, she doesn't sound much different than your average mass-produced student, all that stuff you were talking about is covered in the more advanced classes, right? :11:
At least that's what my kids were told whenever they asked a question.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Everyone can benefit from a mentor. Take on the task, but try to find a pool or shallow confined water for skills reviews first. You don't have to instruct, per se, just demonstrate by the way you yourself dive. Better you than having her on her trip and having problems.

(At least she knew enough to know that she needed some refresher diving to feel comfortable about going..., or she wouldn't have asked you)

 

[Kim]

The misgivings you're reporting about this diver are quite believable to me. If her 25 or so dives were in catered tropical settings she may very well not be up on fundamentals. Her gear could have picked out by her LDS; her dives strictly managed by watchdog DM's (and her equipment also set up and broken down for her). We all know that it's pretty stinking hard to fail your OW class... 'specially if the instructor "helps".

I personally know more than a couple divers who fit the same competency profile you're describing cyklon. They only dive in the pool and in Cozumel. I'll dive with 'em, but I pretty much babysit them... both above and below the water. I have a lot of patience. Helps if they're cute too.

I think this is right on the ball. When I first arrived in Japan and went for a dive (I'm PADI rescue) my site guide/DM wanted me to hold onto their hand - we were in 21ft of water! When I first did a boat dive in Okinawa and produced a dive table to pre-plan the dives we were going to to, everyone looked at me in amazement and several people asked me what the tables were - and what they were for! Dives in Japan are managed by the DM's/instructors for the most part - it's not really surprising that OW divers really haven't got a clue here - they don't have to. However it's one aspect of diving in Japan that worries me a lot - I wonder how safe these divers would be if they dive somewhere else - where the personal responsibilty expectations are much higher - as they are supposed to be.
Suffice to say - having seen that I plan my own dives independant of the DM's/instructors - and I use a Suunto Stinger during the dives and and after to keep a check on SI's etc - I am now afforded a much higher status by the two shops that we use in Okinawa - now I am 'one of them' - and the DM's/instructors now check back with me after surface intervals to see if I agree with the planned entry times/profiles. I even had one offer me a DM licence because (according to them) I was good enough for it! (I refused it)

In short I totally agree with Archman - there are definately divers who fit the profile - there are definately shops that allow them to exist.
What to do about it? Well - in this given situation obviously some tack is called for - but exactly how tactful do you need to be when you are concerned about someone elses life? We learn how to dive properly BECAUSE it's a dangerous sport that CAN kill you. In my experience most people who realise that they might die if they make a mistake try very hard not to. Maybe pointing this fact out might help to concentrate her mind - at least as far as accepting a little remedial/new training from a good instructor (with a helpful buddy at her side!)
By the way - in Japan, yes they do setup and break down your gear - they clean it too. We arrive off the plane - we hand over our gearbags - we get them back after the last dive - two, three or however many days later!

 

[Tao of the Dive]

Suggest that you could use a refresher course yourself, and ask her if she would like to buddy up for it. Tech certs or not, it's a chance to get in the water, and help somebody who likes to dive, but isn't exactly the safest person in the ocean, and doesn't know it. I don't think it's fair to her (or her family) to know of the situation, and not take steps that are within your abilities (NOT as an instructor, but as a friend and fellow diver) to address the problems you see (addressed by suggesting more training). And if she is flirting, a refresher course could be a good date... ;-)

 

[Roughwaterjohn]

It seems, from what you've shared so far, that she may not be willing to take a refresher if it's mentioned casually, either as something you would do in her situation or as a gentle suggestion. If she was unwilling to read the manual for her computer, preferring instead to have you 'set it for her', the chances of her agreeing to the extra time and effort of a refresher course look pretty dim. :11:

I agree, it would not be the best situation to simply let her go off and dive, with no direction (from you or some other qualified diver), and I absolutely would not dive with her in this state of training, regardless of depth.

I would truly love to see her get the training she so justly needs, prior to her vacation. I would simply, and politely ask her, since diving is a skill and training oriented adventure, a few basic questions, the same ones you mentioned she wouldn't know. When she does in fact not know them, I would tell her it's not prudent for her to think about diving on her vacation, or even a quick shallow dive with you, until she got a quick, valuable and relatively painless refresher course. Then, by all means, you would love to do some fun local dives with her.

She may understand your concern, and be thankful for your directness and willingness to help. Then again, she may kick your chair out from under you and run screaming from the room, knocking the candy machine over, pulling the time clock of the wall and screaming for all to hear that she's "just not understood". Either way, you did what's right, not what's easy. The work relationship will survive or fail on it's own merits, hopefully not hinging on this, merely life threatening decision.

John A.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Quick pull this post before Mike reads it he'll stroke out!!

Hallmac

If you mean me, naaa...I won't stroke out honest.

In the four years that I owned a shop I had HUNDERDS of people just like this come in and ask about trips, look at gear and inquire about getting their children certified.

It's very hard to get through to them sometimes. They have been taught that diving is safe and they trust in the divemaster. Often it takes a really bad experience to get them to believe they're missing something.

Usually their ok diving in the tropics with a DM and the worst that usually happens is a hurt ear or something which they'll blame on an allergy or the climate rather than their inability to control a descent.

If a diver like this gets interested in local diving (unlikely unless they live in the tropics) they may start to get it fast when they try to dive on their own and find they can't.

Many of these folks are so bad in the water that it's hard to even get them through a refresher in any reasonable amount of time. What they need is to retake the whole OW class over from the start. I've had a few who did just that but usualy when a spouse or friend was getting certified and they just joined them for the class.

I think you're right to be concerned about diving with her and if I were you I would certainly start in a pool or pool like conditions until you see what's going on.