Did the collapse at JB cause you to rethink your approach to caves?

[Kevin Carlisle]

That's good to know. I was under the impression that it was a bit more severe and that caused issues for some exiting back mount divers. I think it does provide a good "what if" opportunity, especially since not everyone is familiar with the alternate exits.

As far as I know there was only one diver in there. He found it and continued his dive. He saw no other divers. Well I think if you are going to dive a cave you should look at maps and also LEARN the cave, which is lost on these new zero to hero divers that only care about line arrows and distances. In sm there are two options but in bm the horseshoe is the only option for getting back in the cavern.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

I was the diver who found this. It was Wednesday of last week. It did not happen while I was diving.......I don't think anyway. I found it on my way in. I noticed the line (8' maybe) was covered by some large debris at the fissure we drop down to the lower section. I referred to it as the chimney on CDF as it seems this is the common term for that spot. I pulled a spool and jumped the debris and had a very nice dive.

When I finished, I went to Edds for fills. I asked if he was aware of the collapse. He told me he was in there the afternoon before and everything was fine at that point. The next day I pulled up in my boat and Edd was with a class. When was was heading out Edd met me at the "line trap" and collapse. I assisted him in cutting and moving the line from under the collapse to the top of it. We spent a few minutes surveying the debris. The more you look, the more you see. Looking down and right, towards the direction of Youngs Siphon, there is a large rock that fell. Adam posted on CDF that it measures 40' across and that is probably right. It is a pretty big slab. There is a lot of debris from it and it is where the exhaled gas pools when you ascend from the lower section. The more we looked the more debris we found. There is also significant cracking in the area the debris fell from. The flow is way down right now and you can bet the high flow has buoyed the ceiling along with the water.

I did not think it restricted the opening, but I was in sidemount. I got a call from a diver that asked about this as he had heard it made the "restriction" smaller and unpassable in backmount. Like I said, I didn't think this occurred but I was in sidemount and had plenty of room. If anyone can clear this up, as in you dived it in backmount or checked while sidemount after the collapse occured, that would be goos to know. I am just glad I wasn't under the collapse when it happened.

From the horses mouth.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I think it does provide a good "what if" opportunity, especially since not everyone is familiar with the alternate exits.

If you're not willing to accept the far out chance that you could get closed in... don't dive.

Otherwise, lets say it happens, without an alt route... Dig, push gear, or go push that lead that you never had the gas for previously.

 

[Cave Diver]

Well I think if you are going to dive a cave you should look at maps and also LEARN the cave, which is lost on these new zero to hero divers that only care about line arrows and distances. In sm there are two options but in bm the horseshoe is the only option for getting back in the cavern.

That's one of the responses I was angling for with this thread, although I wouldn't put it only on 0-H divers. Learning the cave is important, not only for the (slim) possibility of needing an alternate exit, but also for being aware of potentially dangerous areas and avoiding them when possible. Having a basketball sized rock fall on your head could ruin your day pretty quick, even if it didn't block your exit.

 

[rjack321]

I got hit on the head today with a big ass rock. I won't be rethinking anything due to that

Smarter already huh? :mooner:

 

[karstdvr]

especially since not everyone is familiar with the alternate exits.

Alternate exits are a feel good,but if something significant falls,it will be a challange to find these exits in complete zero viz unless intimately familiar with them. I remember when the big rock over the entrance to upstream cow shifted,and for the heck of it I did a lights out exit on the sidemount entrance,"just in case",man it took as long as the dive.

I think the big thing that will happen out of this,is that Jackson County will enjoy an increase in attendence,and Edd will have extra gas sales because of the curiosity generated by 3 different forum postings.

 

[Tegg]

I think the big thing that will happen out of this,is that Jackson County will enjoy an increase in attendence,and Edd will have extra gas sales because of the curiosity generated by 3 different forum postings.

Truth.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

That's one of the responses I was angling for with this thread, although I wouldn't put it only on 0-H divers. Learning the cave is important, not only for the (slim) possibility of needing an alternate exit, but also for being aware of potentially dangerous areas and avoiding them when possible. Having a basketball sized rock fall on your head could ruin your day pretty quick, even if it didn't block your exit.

..and if this isn't an easy access cave where you can get alot of dives in at it(to get familiar)? or if its the first time you've been on that particular site and/or no maps available?


Accept that caves are constantly changing, or find a new hobby

 

[LiteHedded]

That's one of the responses I was angling for with this thread, although I wouldn't put it only on 0-H divers. Learning the cave is important, not only for the (slim) possibility of needing an alternate exit, but also for being aware of potentially dangerous areas and avoiding them when possible. Having a basketball sized rock fall on your head could ruin your day pretty quick, even if it didn't block your exit.

it's not so bad

 

[Cave Diver]

..and if this isn't an easy access cave where you can get alot of dives in at it(to get familiar)? or if its the first time you've been on that particular site and/or no maps available?

Speaking for myself, if it's my first time and I don't have a map to look at, I tend to go kind of slow and poke around. I'm not in a race to hit the back of the line; in fact I've only done that a couple of times. I'm still a fan of progressive penetration and getting to know the cave I'm diving in. That includes making note of any other passages, or features that I think might cause me a problem. If I'm not comfortable with the size of a restriction, or the potential for collapse or blockage, then I'll look for an alternate path or turn the dive.

Personally, the thought of a collapse doesn't bother me much. But some interesting feedback from offline conversation got me wondering how others view it, thus the basis for this thread. I'm not really surprised on your viewpoint though, I think you're part mole anyway.