Question DH Regs Questions

[rhwestfall]

There are occasionally updated/modernized models available (called a PRAM). One place you might want to post an interest for one is over on the Vintage Double Hose Forum. Also, Rob at the Scuba Museum frequently has the Voit Trieste with updates. There are Voit models of this that have both LP and HP ports that allow you to connect the modern accessories such as an octo, spg, and an LPI inflator with some fittings and creativity.

In terms of performance, the Kraken is the top of the list, then the PRAM (which was the forerunner/idea behind the Kraken), then something like a USD with a Cyclone & HPR (limited stock to update your own), and the stock Royal Aquamaster. The last two would use a long yoke/banjo for an spg, and modern convertible valves have been problematic. Not sure where the Voit fits in. I'm playing with them right now.

Bottom line, you will need to be a hands on guy if you want to own and dive one.

 

[rhwestfall]

I don't think the Kraken has anything over my hotrod Phoenix. I've had both.

I think @Luis H likely can provide data for a different view. The plastic cans have allowed for flow optimization, not realized with each hand built older model (like the 109 vs. the G250). There have also been refinements in the first and second stages the improve the performance. Close, but not equal.

 

[Ghost95]

I was going to grab a Cyclone, the last one at VDH, two days ago and someone saw it and beat me to it. Hopefully VDH gets in a few more, and some wings. I'm trying to hold out for the wing but might have to go DGX unless I hear some promising news.

I'd say go ahead and get the double hose and learn the work yourself. There are a few tricks but people here are passionate about these things and offer help freely to get them back in the water.

Enjoy.

 

[scrane]

I think @Luis H likely can provide data for a different view. The plastic cans have allowed for flow optimization, not realized with each hand built older model (like the 109 vs. the G250). There have also been refinements in the first and second stages the improve the performance. Close, but not equal.

Well, I'm sorry you didn't have a good experience with the Phoenix. I like mine every bit as much as the Kraken I dove with a for a year.
I've had both apart and outside of layout they both share the same first and second stage components. The Kraken might be better theoretically because of the strait shot from the orifice, but the Phoenix gives a pretty straight shot, too. Because of the straight shot in both models case configuration will have little effect. It's not like a typical modern second stage regulator where the air has to bounce around to get to the mouthpiece. Port layout for safe second and gauge/ transmitter is arguably better with a well clocked Phoenix. Venturi adjustment methods are entirely different, but seem equal in performance. The best thing about the Kraken is its light weight.
Plus the Phoenix is pretty! When it came to selling one I sold the AK.
I need to clarify that what I described above is the standard Aquamaster with the Phoenix/HPR/Silicone diaphragm/Duckbill eliminator/DSV mods.

 

[rhwestfall]

I'm sorry you didn't have a good experience with the Phoenix

Where did I say that? Hardly the truth, and I dive my PRAMs more than my Kraken, including under the ice, and warm water travel. It still is not fully on par with the Kraken.

 

[scrane]

It still is not fully on par with the Kraken.

In what way?
I've found the problem with with the fluctuating pressure differential between the cans and the lungs pretty much overrides the insignificant differences they might have. Do you experience a difference in performance between the two?
One thing I didn't like about the Kraken was the fiddly screws used to hold the cases together. The o-rings never did their job retaining the tiny screws in the case for me.

I'm glad you enjoy your PRAMs.

 

[rhwestfall]

In what way?

One thing I experienced: Without the DSV (actually the deflector in it), the Kraken had such a venturi it would frequently "bypass" on a breadth. I never experienced it with the PRAMs I have, but I have now switched all my DH regs to the DSV.

Both are very good (on par with my ScubaPro MK17/G250v), and I haven't dove my Kraken in 4 years because of the "enjoyment" of the "big old shiny stuff."

 

[Underwater Tourist]

Another question for you guys, how do you deal with a free flowing second stage in a dh reg?

For a modern reg, say i got some debris stuck in the membrane causing it to free flow, then a quick shake can solve the problem. But what would you do in a dh reg?

 

[Gone for diving]

Quite hard for debris to get inside,
for one.

 

[Gone for diving]

Could try squeezing the inhale hose to pressurize the diaphragm back... (never had a free flow other than the mouthpiece higher than the reg.)
But can't see how this would ever get jammed.

Other than that, you have similar limitations as a normal single tank diver..