Devils Throat TAKE LIGHT

[MMM]

But you were just talking about how you trusted Matt at Blue Angel, and they are among the least expensive ops down there. Are you saying that you think he couldn't have handled the situation? For the record I would (and have) put my life in Matt's hands.

I do not think that you can correlate what a dive op charges for a dive to their ability to handle an emergency.

No, that is not what I am saying. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[pilot fish]

I was going to reply but my wife has advised it's not worth it!!! I have to agree......You know what they say opinions are like......and everyone's got one! I look forward to my next dive trip in March to Cozumel with my wife and the same DO and DM!!!

I think Mike meant well but it came out harshly. I see nothing gained by scorning a person that has the courage to come on the Board and speak about a mistake in diving. At this point, I think you might want ot give the Throat a pass. I think your wife was not ready for this dive mentally. Just because it's there does not mean you HAVE to do it. Everest is there and can stay there. I'm not ever gonna climb it. No shame to pass on this site. If she is willing to go back in the water then just stay above 80 ft for the next series of dives till she, and you, get your sea legs back. That she wants to dive again speaks a lot about her courage. Go easy.

Just take the points of this thread and try to disregard the tone. Not easy, I know.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Now that statement really sounds like you don't really want to listen to good advice. Kind of like putting your head in the sand. Did you really expect everyone on the list to send prayers and gushy feelings? I'm not saying those things are bad, but a little reality is in order as well.

Try to ignore what some see as a harsh tone and take it for what it is. Damn good advice. I have met Mike and I can tell he really isn't mean. However, he is serious when he needs to be. If anything Mike might be mad that dive ops and the industry as a whole who let people get into a trouble like this.

Do yourself a huge favor and enrole in a cavern class and see what Mike is refering to. I would also suggest a viewing of the movie "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" (I believe that's the name) if instructors still show it and you will see why Mike is serious. At a minimum, the classs also offers you the oppotunity to become a better, safer and confident diver.

And yes, I'm glad to see your wife is ok and you both continue to dive, but within your training limits.

I was going to reply but my wife has advised it's not worth it!!! I have to agree......You know what they say opinions are like......and everyone's got one!

 

[ggunn]

No, that is not what I am saying. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I wasn't aware that I was. Sorry.

 

[MMM]

I wasn't aware that I was. Sorry.

Thanks. Apology accepted. Generally in life I think you get what you pay for...diving included. There are exceptions to every rule but considerable research is first required before you can unequivocally recommend a far cheaper price for any good or service.

 

[ReefHound]

I'm grateful the majority of respondents understood the purpose of my posting. It's not surprising the variety of responses to a web posting. Most postings have been positive, thoughtful and appreciated although a few (1 above), have been accusatory and I'm compelled to reply.

While you may consider the posts that sympathize and offer encouragement to be "positive" and "appreciated", it's the posts like those by MikeF that you should take to heart because they are the ones that may one day save your life. If you refuse to hear the words because you don't like the tone, that's your problem. The truth is often bitter and hard to swallow.

Bottom line - you and your wife were diving outside your experience and qualifications. You made tons of diving mistakes, from doing a "trust me" dive to diving without proper equipment to complete buddy separation. Getting a reg pulled out of your mouth should not lead to a near drowning for someone properly trained and within their comfort level.

You drew a number of morals out of the story, mostly the wrong ones, most of them involve having someone else take care of you. You have a lot to learn if your idea of being a safe diver is picking a good DM and dive op, going to a well-equipped emergency facility, asking for a competent doctor, and carrying insurance to pay for it all.

Playing back "what ifs" is a vital component of learning from mistakes. Doing that, visualizing and mentally rehearsing procedures, combined with proper training, will eventually lead you to feel much better about yourself than any amount of "positive" and feel-good posts here. So you can get defensive and call me names too to shift the focus from where it should be, but what you want to hear and what you need to hear are two different things.

 

[Rule62]

Now that statement really sounds like you don't really want to listen to good advice. Kind of like putting your head in the sand. Did you really expect everyone on the list to send prayers and gushy feelings? I'm not saying those things are bad, but a little reality is in order as well.

Try to ignore what some see as a harsh tone and take it for what it is. Damn good advice. I have met Mike and I can tell he really isn't mean. However, he is serious when he needs to be. If anything Mike might be mad that dive ops and the industry as a whole who let people get into a trouble like this.

Do yourself a huge favor and enrole in a cavern class and see what Mike is refering to. I would also suggest a viewing of the movie "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" (I believe that's the name) if instructors still show it and you will see why Mike is serious. At a minimum, the classs also offers you the oppotunity to become a better, safer and confident diver.

And yes, I'm glad to see your wife is ok and you both continue to dive, but within your training limits.

As info, both my wife and I spent a week diving the Cenotes south of Playa del Carmen. We had enough instruction and dives to get our cert but I didn't want to pay the dough for the cert. It's not about the training!! My posting was meant to share an experience. We learned many things from the experience and as I said before, the take aways were -

Take a light into the Devils Throat, dive with a trained dive op, go to San Miguel Clinic if you need med attention, request Dr. Piccolo for dive related issues, have DAN coverage, ENJOY EVERY MOMENT YOU HAVE, LIFE IS FRAGILE!!! BE GRATEFUL!!!

If folks who read this can benefit, great, if not, that's a choice they can make.

 

[harpua]

OK. I think that everyone needs to realize that this is a very sensitive AND serious issue. First I would like to say that I am so happy that you still have your wife to cherish. Nothing is more important than the fact that you both can share another moment in this crazy thing we call life. As a person who has recently experienced loss, I cannot express enough the fragility of our own existence. Nature does not care whether we live or die. And she should not. It is up to us as an element of nature to preserve our own existence. We do not "naturally" live in the underwater environment, and must "learn" how to adapt to this alien world. We have not been granted the ability to survive naturally in the conditions which we have been permitted to explore. This is a paradox in which the diving community must survive. The question I pose is "where DO you place your trust. Yes, this was a technically challenging dive, and should never be taken lightly, but even a 35ft shore dive can "go all pear-shaped" and be just as life threatening. How do you determine what level of training do you need to attempt any particular dive? The quick answer is that you simply go all the way and get all the training you can before you attempt dive #1 and have no worries whatsoever (ie rescue-cavern-cave-dm-instructor ect.) The hard truth of the matter is that most divers START with a minimum of prep training and continue education as is convenient. At some point we all MUST trust someone (even if it is our first step into the water at the encouragement of our siblings/parents/teachers) and it is in this trust that recreational diving has its foundations? Please be aware that I am not advocating ignorance. I am just pointing out a particular gray-area of the institution, and question whether definitions could be improved. Also note that I would never attempt any dive I that I would deem a risk, yet as ALL dives are inherently risky...

Where do you draw the line? Props to those who turned this tragedy into a simple drama...

 

[Dan Gibson]

Some of what you took away certainly makes sense. But there is a bigger picture you are completely missing or ignoring. It's the one that is far more important to other readers who could end up in the same situation if they only follow your advice. It is truly about the training and proper mindset.

You say you had enough instruction and dives to get your cert in an overhead, although you didn't pay for the card. If you had the proper training, you would surely use proper overhead protocols on that dive. Something appears to be sorely missing from that training. It's a good thing you didn't pay for that cert, because it sounds like you got taken. Diving the Cenotes isn't necessarily a substitute for cavern or cave training. I seriously doubt paying for the cert post dives would be a big expense. The actual training would be the expense. This part of the story does not jibe.

As info, both my wife and I spent a week diving the Cenotes south of Playa del Carmen. We had enough instruction and dives to get our cert but I didn't want to pay the dough for the cert. It's not about the training!! My posting was meant to share an experience. We learned many things from the experience and as I said before, the take aways were -

Take a light into the Devils Throat, dive with a trained dive op, go to San Miguel Clinic if you need med attention, request Dr. Piccolo for dive related issues, have DAN coverage, ENJOY EVERY MOMENT YOU HAVE, LIFE IS FRAGILE!!! BE GRATEFUL!!!

If folks who read this can benefit, great, if not, that's a choice they can make.

 

[Dan Gibson]

It's kind of like the story about being afraid to run out of gas so you keep a can of gas in the seat next to you so now you need a fire extinguisher and so on...

Mitigate the risks before they become a problem.

You have a lot to learn if your idea of being a safe diver is picking a good DM and dive op, going to a well-equipped emergency facility, asking for a competent doctor, and carrying insurance to pay for it all.