Devils Throat TAKE LIGHT

[MikeFerrara]

As info, both my wife and I spent a week diving the Cenotes south of Playa del Carmen. We had enough instruction and dives to get our cert but I didn't want to pay the dough for the cert. It's not about the training!! My posting was meant to share an experience. We learned many things from the experience and as I said before, the take aways were -

It's not about the card but the "training" (know-how) is at the very heart of the matter.

You did enough training to get your cert? You did line drills on land, line drills in OW, You practiced running lines in the cave, OOA, lights out and touch contact exits using lines? What about Lost line, cut line and lost buddy drills? If this wasn't a class, you really got your moneys worth.

Take a light into the Devils Throat, dive with a trained dive op, go to San Miguel Clinic if you need med attention, request Dr. Piccolo for dive related issues, have DAN coverage, ENJOY EVERY MOMENT YOU HAVE, LIFE IS FRAGILE!!! BE GRATEFUL!!!

I disagree. If the whole dive is within the lighted zone you should have two lights. From what I'm hearing though, you do leave the lighted zone, so you should have three lights. You don't need to dive with a "dive op" at all...assuming you have a way to get to the site.

Reference "Basic Cave Diving a Blue Print for Survival" by Sheck Exley or any cave diving text that has been writen since. Your dive violated at least three of the five rules of accident analysis. Those rules are (in no particular order) 1, Training. 2, have a continuous guidline. 3, have three lights (the sun counts as one) 4, depth (keep your actual depth or END above 130) 5, apply the rule of thirds (most liberal).

It should be pretty straight forward to see how these rules apply here. There is nothing at all to be learned from your dive that one can't just go read about. We don't have to be reinventing this stuff. We already KNOW that failure to follow these basic rules, at a minimum, results in deaths in caverns and caves.

Of course, if you have already had enough training to get your cert then you know and have been tested on all this stuff. Right?

Go the IUCRR site and do some reading. The IUCRR International Underwater Cave rescue and Recovery. They have a data base of accidents you can read.

Like Dan suggested, watch the video "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die". It's produced by DSAT, Lamar Hires is the presenter and PADI sells it. I used to show it to all of my students who hadn't yet seen it regardless of what level they were at.

 

[ffestpirate]

I don't want to stir anything up. I LOVED Devil's Throat. I believe that what you dive and how you dive needs to come down to personal responsibility. You need to be in touch with your skill and experience base. You can't fault anyone else if a dive is beyond your experience level or you are unfamiliar with the site. If you follow a dive leader to a dive that may be beyond your level, it is your responsibility to make that decision and abort the dive if necessary. You are the ONLY one responsible for where and what you dive. No dive is "required".

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have not dived devils throat........

But you are obviously an EXPERT DIVER who knows everything about diving so let me ask you this question; .... Does a dead horse float or sink?

I wouldn't claim to be an expert and I don't know everythng about anything but I think I'm qualified to discuss a situation like this that relates to basic cavern, cave or deepish diving.

As far as the dead horse...sometimes they sink and sometimes they float.

 

[jpomerantz]

I'm sort of morbidly fascinated with this thread.

A diver went into an overhead, got disoriented, got stuck, aspirated water, lost consciousness, was brought to the surface from over 100 feet down, required CPR and survived. This is an AMAZING outcome.

The diver's spouse is happy that she was rescued and so well cared for (and she was!) and would do the same dive again. That flabbergasts me.

Something went really, really WRONG on that dive. In medicine, if something goes really, really wrong, we spend a lot of time looking at the incident to identify the precipitating causes and to formulate a plan to keep that sequence of events from happening again. It seems to me that a nearly lethal dive like this should spark the same kind of dispassionate inquiry and uncompromising honesty.

Depth, probable narcosis, overhead environment, inadequate illumination and buddy separation all seem to me to be probable players in this incident.

I'll tell you one thing -- I'm headed for Cozumel in March. I'm going to do a cavern course while I'm there. But I will not do this described dive. I know my limits.

I agree. Having been to Czm several times I actually have no desire to do this dive. I'd rather stick to taking pix and watching the world flow by.

That being said, as a doc, having performed CPR on more people than I would like to remember, I am truly amazed and impressed that this turned out the way it did. That DOES speak to the skills of those doing the resuscitation.

All that said how about we stop bashing the guy, take the points that have merit and move on to enjoy the upcoming holiday??

 

[Mawg]

I wouldn't claim to be an expert and I don't know everythng about anything but I think I'm qualified to discuss a situation like this that relates to basic cavern, cave or deepish diving.

As far as the dead horse...sometimes they sink and sometimes they float.

You made your point in your first post. The rest is bordering on sanctimonious posing.


Reaching for the Bonine.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You made your point in your first post. The rest is bordering on sanctimonious posing.


Reaching for the Bonine.

Gee and I thought I was directly responding to comments and offering supporting information and sources.

 

[Rick Inman]

I agree. Having been to Czm several times I actually have no desire to do this dive. I'd rather stick to taking pix and watching the world flow by.

Huh. I thought you did that dive with us when I was there.

But, I'm old... memory going... all that chemical abuse as a kid...

You weren't on that dive with us, Jay?

 

[jpomerantz]

Huh. I thought you did that dive with us when I was there.

But, I'm old... memory going... all that chemical abuse as a kid...

You weren't on that dive with us, Jay?

Nope -

 

[ggunn]

Thanks. Apology accepted. Generally in life I think you get what you pay for...diving included. There are exceptions to every rule but considerable research is first required before you can unequivocally recommend a far cheaper price for any good or service.

I do not think, however, that there is a cause and effect link between the amount that a dive shop charges and their safety record. I believe that in large part what one is paying for in the case of the "premium" dive ops on Cozumel is perks, as in handling your gear for you between dives, larger tanks (which may or may not buy you anything), SIT's at beach clubs, that sort of thing. What I inferred from your statement is that less expensive dive ops are inherently more dangerous than the more expensive ones, and that is what I am disagreeing with. I used Matt as an example of an excellent DM whom I trust to handle any emergency which might come up that is beyond my scope, who works for a shop which has some of the lowest prices on the island.

(<EDIT> I certainly do NOT mean that Matt is superman and I therefore can abdicate all safety concerns to him.</EDIT>)

The "you get what you pay for" cliche is, in my opinion, overused and undertrue, if that's a word.

 

[pilot fish]

I might be mistaken, but I don't think Devil's Throat is a dive that requires Cave dive training, or cert? That is not the way it is presented. I don't recall that we were even required to have lights to do the dive ? No one was asked that question. I do recommemd that you carry a light.

As far as I can recall, the only cert necessary for this dive is AOW. Do experienced divers of this Board think the requirements for this dive should be upgraded?