Descending on my first night dive?

[bpotkin]

Thanks Dirtywater diver. I'll try that move as well.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If doing a head first, swimming descent to a depth of 10 feet is too scary (at night) , then I don't think the diver is ready to do a night dive.

 

[DevonDiver]

Adding weight - that's just the 'ostrich effect'. Burying head in sand to avoid dealing with the obvious problem that exists.

The laws of physics don't change when the sun goes down. Your daytime weight requirement is your night-time weight requirement, unless your equipment has changed (don't underestimate the buoyancy provided by some big plastic torches).

Adding weight - symptomatic of the lazy, short-sighted approach to diving skills. The McDiving 'culture of lazy' that is being perpetuated by modern generations of diving instructors who either don't understand, or don't care, how to help a student develop long-term skill progression and appropriate mindset.

Adding weight is essentially ignoring the obvious problem that exists. Fixing the symptom, not the underlying cause. If that is your mindset, or that is how you feel you were trained to approach diving problems, then I am surprised you have the motivation to even type a reply. Lazy is as lazy does.

 

[bpotkin]

I never said anything about being afraid of doing a head first dive at night. As I mentioned, the Padi manual states
that a vertical descent is best for night diving - to keep track of your dive buddy etc. As it turns out- I do
have a new 7mm wet suit that acts almost as a drysuit ( not letting any water in). I have no problem with
finning down 10 ft. and then going vertical. I've made a major effort to be correctly weighted and I feel
that I am progressing with my buoyancy control. I plan on working on breathing out all of my air upon
descending, not finning and waiting to descend. During a normal dive to 30 to 60 feet, I add minimum air
to my bcd to be neutral. As I mentioned at the end of my dive with 500- 750 lbs of air I am neutral at
15 ft. with no air in my BCD. Some of you are saying just add a few more pounds and get on with it.
At the same time this is in conflict with what others are saying. What is the long term solution.
As I mentioned I am going to work on the skills before adding weight.

 

[Mike]

Adding weight - that's just the 'ostrich effect'. Burying head in sand to avoid dealing with the obvious problem that exists.

The laws of physics don't change when the sun goes down. Your daytime weight requirement is your night-time weight requirement, unless your equipment has changed (don't underestimate the buoyancy provided by some big plastic torches).

Adding weight - symptomatic of the lazy, short-sighted approach to diving skills. The McDiving 'culture of lazy' that is being perpetuated by modern generations of diving instructors who either don't understand, or don't care, how to help a student develop long-term skill progression and appropriate mindset.

Adding weight is essentially ignoring the obvious problem that exists. Fixing the symptom, not the underlying cause. If that is your mindset, or that is how you feel you were trained to approach diving problems, then I am surprised you have the motivation to even type a reply. Lazy is as lazy does.

nobodies talking about diving with an anvil, we are talking about a tiny difference in weight. He said at his safety stop he is barely able to hold depth, this isn't a sign of a diver grossly over or under weighted, just a diver that is right on the very razors edge of perfect weighting. It's not lazy to add a couple of pounds when that would result in proper weighting.

I roll my eyes at people who are too caught up in the weight ego trip. They wear it like a badge on their arm. Who cares, 2 lbs could be the difference of diving with or without a big breakfast in your belly, or if I took a big dump prior to diving.

I would always rather be a little heavy then a little light if I had to choose. Especially on a night dive with the extra task loading involved in the experience. If you're having difficulty at your safety stop, you're almost always too light in weight.

 

[Cave Diver]

Get vertical, feet down head up at the surface.

Pull the neck seal of your suit open and let any trapped air escape.

Cross your legs - this will keep you from inadvertently finning.

Dump all air from your BC.

Exhale fully. If you can't sink you're probably underweighted. Try adding a few pounds and repeat.

 

[DevonDiver]

nobodies talking about diving with an anvil, we are talking about a tiny difference in weight. He said at his safety stop he is barely able to hold depth, this isn't a sign of a diver grossly over or under weighted, just a diver that is right on the very razors edge of perfect weighting. It's not lazy to add a couple of pounds when that would result in proper weighting.

If the problem isn't caused by weighting - then weighting isn't the problem. Why solve the problem with weighting. Isn't that a simple concept to understand??!!?

I roll my eyes at people who are too caught up in the weight ego trip. They wear it like a badge on their arm. Who cares, 2 lbs could be the difference of diving with or without a big breakfast in your belly, or if I took a big dump prior to diving.

Where's the ego trip?

I regularly dive over-weighted... I carry extra weights in case students need them. I carry them for qualified divers, who might be using new or rental gear.... There's no 'badge' worn.

BUT... I believe in training people properly. I believe in giving accurate, beneficial advice. That's not ego...it's professionalism and experience.

So please... let's re-think where the ego trip here really lies.

I would always rather be a little heavy then a little light if I had to choose.

Why choose? Just get it right.

Especially on a night dive with the extra task loading involved in the experience.

Being over-weighted causes task loading. Every extra kg causes an extra litre of air volume ascending from 10m to the surface.

What's a couple of lbs? I'll tell you what.... it's the added task loading of having to control a noticeably bigger variation in buoyancy with every minor depth change on a shallow dive.... THAT is task loading.

If you're having difficulty at your safety stop, you're almost always too light in weight.

Actually, it's normally due to ineffective dumping from the BCD. At least, that's what I've noticed in the 500+ students I've trained and the 000's of novice fun divers I've guided...

 

[TSandM]

I don't think it matters what position you are in when you descend in the dark -- what matters is that, if you are between the surface and the bottom, and unable to see either, you can become disoriented. There are orientation cues you can use -- your bubbles are a great one, because they will always travel more or less upward (and you shouldn't be doing your first night dive in a place where the current is so strong that they're getting blown sideways!). Particles in the water will tell you whether you are moving upward or downward -- they stay pretty stationary (again, modulo strong up or down currents) so if they're streaming up past you, you are going down. Your ears will let you know that, too!

If possible, it's nice to do night descents with a reference like an anchor or buoy line. Then it REALLY doesn't matter if you prefer to fin down for a bit.

Your weighting sounds like what Tobin George always describes for people in thick wetsuits. Rather than weighting so that you are negative by the amount of gas you want to use, at the beginning of the dive, you weight for neutral, counting on the fact that, by the end of the dive, you will have lost all the air trapped in the suit, and suit rebound from depth compression won't be complete. I don't, myself, like to be weighted to "barely" hold a 15 foot stop, because I like to control the subsequent ascent, and if I end up with a problem that leaves me low on gas, I'll still be able to stop. But if you are happy with your control, there's no particular reason to add any lead.

Do your head-down initial descent, but make sure you can keep track of your buddy while you do it. Descents are one of the big times for team separation, and being head-down makes it hard to keep track of other divers.

 

[bpotkin]

Problem solved! Thanks to everybody for their help. This time I made sure my new Excel wetsuit was not holding any air by opening it up around my neck and arms. I also took my time and worked on my breathing. It took time but I slowly descended without having to kick down.

 

[fnfalman]

Looks like you're just a hair light. Add 2-lbs of lead and see. Kicking down at the beginning of a dive is fine, but too light to hold a safety stop? Add a pound or two.

I am looking for some advise regarding descending on my first upcoming night dive. I dive with a newer 7mm wet suit and a steel 100 tank and I have to fin down the first 10 ft.
with an empty bcd. I believe that I am weighted correctly being that at the end of my dive I am just barely able to hold at 15 ft. for my 3 min safety stop with no air in my bcd.
I understand that my normal way of kicking down the first 10 ft. is a bad idea on a night dive. I have my buoyancy dialed in with current amount of weight that I dive with and
understand adding more weight is not the way to go.
any ideas?