The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
I just got this in my e-mail from Tom Ingram, and he asked that I post his open letter:
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[FONT="]Tom Ingram:
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Dema show???
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cool_hardware52
Contributor
So what.
DEMA still has a unlimited BOD terms and many find that unacceptable.
DEMA still lacks "one man one vote" representation, and many find that unacceptable.
DEMA has demonstrated that the BOD is willing to spend membership monies promoting specific member (BOD member) firms, and many find that unacceptable.
DEMA still apparently has not found the intestinal fortitude to "man up" and come on here in person and address these concerns, right, wrong or otherwise.
Tobin
DEMA still has a unlimited BOD terms and many find that unacceptable.
DEMA still lacks "one man one vote" representation, and many find that unacceptable.
DEMA has demonstrated that the BOD is willing to spend membership monies promoting specific member (BOD member) firms, and many find that unacceptable.
DEMA still apparently has not found the intestinal fortitude to "man up" and come on here in person and address these concerns, right, wrong or otherwise.
Tobin
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Divemaster
So is this turning into a he said she said thread now?
Almost like some divers that come here complaining about a shop after one experience, then the other side of the story comes out....
So, all of you....Whats the deal?
Yes, the industry is declining, but do you really rely on DEMA to fix it? I rely on ME or my STAFF to fix it. If DEMA does something to aid in that, then awesome, but ultimately, they DO NOT have any affect on how my business operates. Whether good or bad.
We tried the Be A Diver commercial in some local advertising TV spots...didn't work. Is that DEMAs fault? NO, my ad guy didn't give us a quality program. Yes, the commercial was weak, but it was my fault to try it. I don't support DEMA because I have never seen ANY good support from them. I would like change, but I think there are better things you guys could focus on to fix the industry. DEMA is not the Fix all that for some reason you guys seem to think it is. I could point out a few things that you guys are all doing wrong that could help. In the same breath, there are many positives that you guys do too.
Just like anything, if you don't like it, don't support it. I hear it all the time on here when it comes to dive shops. Why is it any different when coming to the manufacturers and DEMA?
The question is not what DEMA is going to do for you and the industry, but what are YOU going to do for the industry and yourself?
Almost like some divers that come here complaining about a shop after one experience, then the other side of the story comes out....
So, all of you....Whats the deal?
Yes, the industry is declining, but do you really rely on DEMA to fix it? I rely on ME or my STAFF to fix it. If DEMA does something to aid in that, then awesome, but ultimately, they DO NOT have any affect on how my business operates. Whether good or bad.
We tried the Be A Diver commercial in some local advertising TV spots...didn't work. Is that DEMAs fault? NO, my ad guy didn't give us a quality program. Yes, the commercial was weak, but it was my fault to try it. I don't support DEMA because I have never seen ANY good support from them. I would like change, but I think there are better things you guys could focus on to fix the industry. DEMA is not the Fix all that for some reason you guys seem to think it is. I could point out a few things that you guys are all doing wrong that could help. In the same breath, there are many positives that you guys do too.
Just like anything, if you don't like it, don't support it. I hear it all the time on here when it comes to dive shops. Why is it any different when coming to the manufacturers and DEMA?
The question is not what DEMA is going to do for you and the industry, but what are YOU going to do for the industry and yourself?
liquidassets.tv
Registered
I was lead here by a link discussing if DEMA should be open to the public or not so that is what I am addressing. I will leave the criticizing to others.
People who know me will tell you that no one loves the consumer (AKA general public) more than me. My question is this... How will opening DEMA to the public improve or help finance DEMA? Will cover charges for one day from the general public save the DEMA show? I think DEMA is strong and will be better in 2010 and beyond.
This is the first I have thought about this topic but I find it an interesting idea to consider. I like the fact that people at DEMA are generally there to do business. In reality, DEMA is a consumer show; the consumers here are the dive industry professionals. We have to acquire goods and services in order to prepare to redistribute them to the consumers around the planet and that is what DEMA is about.... I am there to do business with industry decision makers.
I can see how someone in travel who does not utilize the opportunity properly would think that having it open to the public would benefit the travel companies but if they are not doing allot of business at DEMA then they need to look at what they are doing wrong, not what DEMA is doing wrong. I increased my personal sales at DEMA as a travel sales rep for 6 years straight over the 6 years prior to 2009. I have a new company doing business at DEMA now and we had a great 1st year. I could have used two more days, I literally ran out of time at DEMA 2009 and the general public would have distracted from that valuable time with the industry leaders even more.
Again, NO one loves a good consumer show more than me and I know that the general public is responsible for all of our success and they are the reason we have DEMA at all. As an industry we have to have a trade show where we can meet and prepare to offer our valuable clients, fans, students, viewers, readers, friends, guests and dive buddies what they need as divers and consumers the following year. With no more feedback than I have taken the time to read here I would have to say I am a NO until someone gives me a good reason why. I am open to change for sure but it has to be for a good reason. Show me!
Randy Harris
People who know me will tell you that no one loves the consumer (AKA general public) more than me. My question is this... How will opening DEMA to the public improve or help finance DEMA? Will cover charges for one day from the general public save the DEMA show? I think DEMA is strong and will be better in 2010 and beyond.
This is the first I have thought about this topic but I find it an interesting idea to consider. I like the fact that people at DEMA are generally there to do business. In reality, DEMA is a consumer show; the consumers here are the dive industry professionals. We have to acquire goods and services in order to prepare to redistribute them to the consumers around the planet and that is what DEMA is about.... I am there to do business with industry decision makers.
I can see how someone in travel who does not utilize the opportunity properly would think that having it open to the public would benefit the travel companies but if they are not doing allot of business at DEMA then they need to look at what they are doing wrong, not what DEMA is doing wrong. I increased my personal sales at DEMA as a travel sales rep for 6 years straight over the 6 years prior to 2009. I have a new company doing business at DEMA now and we had a great 1st year. I could have used two more days, I literally ran out of time at DEMA 2009 and the general public would have distracted from that valuable time with the industry leaders even more.
Again, NO one loves a good consumer show more than me and I know that the general public is responsible for all of our success and they are the reason we have DEMA at all. As an industry we have to have a trade show where we can meet and prepare to offer our valuable clients, fans, students, viewers, readers, friends, guests and dive buddies what they need as divers and consumers the following year. With no more feedback than I have taken the time to read here I would have to say I am a NO until someone gives me a good reason why. I am open to change for sure but it has to be for a good reason. Show me!
Randy Harris
widget
Contributor
You make some good points, but it appears (to me, I may be wrong?) that you are looking at it from a travel perspective only.
From my experience the equipment side of the market thinks differantly, although not all will say so outright.
I deal with a lot of manufacturers in both Europe, the USA, Taiwan and China and the consensus is the equipment side of the Scuba market is in heavy decline, I know of suppliers who have been in business for 50 years or more who are concerned that if things do not change in the next year to eighteen months they will be out of business, Yes, its that bad.!
The equipment distribution chain is already largely tied up, and no new customers are coming into the market which results in the pie just moving around between suppliers, clearly this is not sustainable. Any honest manufacturer will tell you they are not seeing new customers at Dema let alone new orders, so in respect it becomes an expensive "meet and greet" for them, something they can do in the normal course of business.
I am sure not all manufacturers will be supportive of a consumer slant to the show, but if we look at the world internationally, its a very foolish supplier who dos not want to get CLOSER to his target market (and everyones target market is Joe public) - unfortunately (or fortunately, depends how you look at it) Dema has the image of been the biggest and the best, the diving public wants to be associated with this image, and, most of the manufacturers I deal with feel they want the opportunity to interact with them in return. Its not easy for a Chinese or even European manufacturer to interact with USA based consumers, or Vice Versa, domestically it may be differant, but few manufacturers can survive on only one market.
We all agree there is a good point to be made for a time to discuss business with other industry partners, however, most of us can do this in two days, three if you dont plan it well, opening one or two days for the public later will allow manufacturers to hear first hand how the public views their goods, discuss issues, do some damage control if necessary and raise their brand awareness with those people who are buying their goods - we ALL love free stuff, and you will be surprised how a few free caps and stickers can soothe an irritated client and turn around a bad situation, (or improve a good one)!
Of course, there are always two sides to a coin and good points can be made on both, but from my discussions there needs to be a change and many think it will have to be consumer driven as opposed to industry driven.
From my experience the equipment side of the market thinks differantly, although not all will say so outright.
I deal with a lot of manufacturers in both Europe, the USA, Taiwan and China and the consensus is the equipment side of the Scuba market is in heavy decline, I know of suppliers who have been in business for 50 years or more who are concerned that if things do not change in the next year to eighteen months they will be out of business, Yes, its that bad.!
The equipment distribution chain is already largely tied up, and no new customers are coming into the market which results in the pie just moving around between suppliers, clearly this is not sustainable. Any honest manufacturer will tell you they are not seeing new customers at Dema let alone new orders, so in respect it becomes an expensive "meet and greet" for them, something they can do in the normal course of business.
I am sure not all manufacturers will be supportive of a consumer slant to the show, but if we look at the world internationally, its a very foolish supplier who dos not want to get CLOSER to his target market (and everyones target market is Joe public) - unfortunately (or fortunately, depends how you look at it) Dema has the image of been the biggest and the best, the diving public wants to be associated with this image, and, most of the manufacturers I deal with feel they want the opportunity to interact with them in return. Its not easy for a Chinese or even European manufacturer to interact with USA based consumers, or Vice Versa, domestically it may be differant, but few manufacturers can survive on only one market.
We all agree there is a good point to be made for a time to discuss business with other industry partners, however, most of us can do this in two days, three if you dont plan it well, opening one or two days for the public later will allow manufacturers to hear first hand how the public views their goods, discuss issues, do some damage control if necessary and raise their brand awareness with those people who are buying their goods - we ALL love free stuff, and you will be surprised how a few free caps and stickers can soothe an irritated client and turn around a bad situation, (or improve a good one)!
Of course, there are always two sides to a coin and good points can be made on both, but from my discussions there needs to be a change and many think it will have to be consumer driven as opposed to industry driven.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
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Thanks Pete! But to address widget, It is time for them all to realize that vacation divers do not benefit the local retailer nearly as much as those who are diving every weekend in their home areas. They buy the bulk of equipment. DEMA can stay closed to the consumer if they like. I can get in if I want to as an instructor but have not joined. That may change later this year but it will be for personal reasons as well as business. But they need to get away from so much travel and out more focus on divers staying home and diving local.
I have two students later this AM in the pool. They are going to St Martin next week.We are doing a refresher and new equipment orientation. They bought the new gear because throughout their training I pushed the benefits of diving locally. Otherwise they told me if they were going to dive only on vacation it would be a more difficult decision to purchase the bc's and regs and dive computers they did. And I hear and see this all the time. The manufacturers also need to grow a pair and tell DEMA that maybe the show needs to be a bit smaller in size and focus on getting them together with their customers- The dive shops. As opposed to being what many perceive as a way for resorts to increase their numbers while not benefiting the guys who have kept them in business for 50 years.
I have two students later this AM in the pool. They are going to St Martin next week.We are doing a refresher and new equipment orientation. They bought the new gear because throughout their training I pushed the benefits of diving locally. Otherwise they told me if they were going to dive only on vacation it would be a more difficult decision to purchase the bc's and regs and dive computers they did. And I hear and see this all the time. The manufacturers also need to grow a pair and tell DEMA that maybe the show needs to be a bit smaller in size and focus on getting them together with their customers- The dive shops. As opposed to being what many perceive as a way for resorts to increase their numbers while not benefiting the guys who have kept them in business for 50 years.
widget
Contributor
Sure Jim, I largely agree with you, Dema has certainly lost focus on equipment and what pulled Dema into the new dive world (equipment) is now the poor second cousin to travel.
I also agree the only way to keep divers in the water is to promote local, not everyone can afford to or even wants to travel to some distant destination, but I still think most divers want to be part of something bigger than just themselves, and Dema is still holds an allure to most regular divers.
When I said the revival (if it is to occur) needs to be consumer as opposed to industry driven, I meant shops are in decline worldwide, unfortunately the manufacturer is not finding new faces to promote to at Dema, and the old established shops find they now have to wear many differant hats, sometimes it may be difficult for them to spend resources and time promoting a special on regs in the dead of winter when gear sales are slow, but they have customers waiting cash in hand to book travel to warmer climes, swim lessons in heated pools or weekend trips to new locations.
I think manufacturers recognise this today, and know they have to work the public customer base themselves as well, gone are the days they could sit in their high backed leather chairs and relegate customer issues and sales to a retailer somewhere who may or may not be pushing the companies product line.
As NetDoc has said, here on Scubaboard there are manufacturers who actively work the customer interaction to their benefit, and why not, consumers love this, they want to interact with the people behind the product, they want answers from the "horses mouth" and they want their concerns dealt with quickly and effeciently by someone who can actually do something about it, and not someone who just passes the buck around, and, in return they are usually prepared to haul out their credit card and create a win / win situation by supporting the product......surely it can be just as successfull at a show enviroment like Dema?.
I dont know,...........I just cant see the issue holding this future combination trade / consumer Dema back.
I also agree the only way to keep divers in the water is to promote local, not everyone can afford to or even wants to travel to some distant destination, but I still think most divers want to be part of something bigger than just themselves, and Dema is still holds an allure to most regular divers.
When I said the revival (if it is to occur) needs to be consumer as opposed to industry driven, I meant shops are in decline worldwide, unfortunately the manufacturer is not finding new faces to promote to at Dema, and the old established shops find they now have to wear many differant hats, sometimes it may be difficult for them to spend resources and time promoting a special on regs in the dead of winter when gear sales are slow, but they have customers waiting cash in hand to book travel to warmer climes, swim lessons in heated pools or weekend trips to new locations.
I think manufacturers recognise this today, and know they have to work the public customer base themselves as well, gone are the days they could sit in their high backed leather chairs and relegate customer issues and sales to a retailer somewhere who may or may not be pushing the companies product line.
As NetDoc has said, here on Scubaboard there are manufacturers who actively work the customer interaction to their benefit, and why not, consumers love this, they want to interact with the people behind the product, they want answers from the "horses mouth" and they want their concerns dealt with quickly and effeciently by someone who can actually do something about it, and not someone who just passes the buck around, and, in return they are usually prepared to haul out their credit card and create a win / win situation by supporting the product......surely it can be just as successfull at a show enviroment like Dema?.
I dont know,...........I just cant see the issue holding this future combination trade / consumer Dema back.
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The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Leadking
Contributor
To say DEMA has lost its focus because of travel is not a fair statement. What has happened is that travel has become the focus of most divers. Exhibitors exhibit what sells. The rise of the travel industry is, for the most part, what has driven the dive industry for the last 30 years.
I am no fan of how they run DEMA, but fair is fair. Let's be honest, the world is a changing place and the means of communication have changed dramatically. Trade-shows, regardless of industry are a dying breed. The argument of opening the DEMA show to consumers is a false hope. I understand many of you would like to attend and I don't blame you. The problem is the cost of the show to exhibitors. I have made, and stand by, the statement that if I spent 5 minutes talking to an end consumer, he took a catalog, went to a dive store and bought my product, I'd lose money. The cost per man-hour at DEMA is in the hundreds of dollars per hour.
That aside, there are just not enough end-users to drive the DEMA show for reasons I have explained in other posts.
When DEMA moved the trade-show to the November time-frame (a MAJOR mistake) I was contacted by two trade-show organizers, Epic, DEMA's former management company and a company that Regina Franklin (DEMA's former executive director) went to work for. Both companies knew that I was the most informed person within the organization about DEMA's trade-show as I had been leading the trade-show committee. Epic had the best chance, but let it lapse when they waited too long. I wrote two white papers to DEMA's board to no avail and have given up trying to work with them.
I am no fan of how they run DEMA, but fair is fair. Let's be honest, the world is a changing place and the means of communication have changed dramatically. Trade-shows, regardless of industry are a dying breed. The argument of opening the DEMA show to consumers is a false hope. I understand many of you would like to attend and I don't blame you. The problem is the cost of the show to exhibitors. I have made, and stand by, the statement that if I spent 5 minutes talking to an end consumer, he took a catalog, went to a dive store and bought my product, I'd lose money. The cost per man-hour at DEMA is in the hundreds of dollars per hour.
That aside, there are just not enough end-users to drive the DEMA show for reasons I have explained in other posts.
When DEMA moved the trade-show to the November time-frame (a MAJOR mistake) I was contacted by two trade-show organizers, Epic, DEMA's former management company and a company that Regina Franklin (DEMA's former executive director) went to work for. Both companies knew that I was the most informed person within the organization about DEMA's trade-show as I had been leading the trade-show committee. Epic had the best chance, but let it lapse when they waited too long. I wrote two white papers to DEMA's board to no avail and have given up trying to work with them.
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