Dema show???

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Isn't it interesting, however, that a lot of the local shows (which should be supported by local divers) are no longer around, either. Seaspace in Houston was a great show the first year I went. Boston Sea Rovers in the Mid-80's, and the Denver show were all strong shows. BTS, Long Beach, and OWU still are, and Brad Nolan and Dive Chronicles are trying to fill that gap, with limited success.

The industry is changing, and I don't think anyone knows what it's gonna look like in 5 years, or even next year for that matter. Pretty scary for this liveaboard operator.

Frank

....well, considering the ongoing fall of the American 'Empire' (witness 'our' national humiliation across the financial sector....we're no longer the world's economic role model, and we're being surpassed by the 21st century superpowers--China/India) .....the easy money credit/housing bubble collapse....record deficits on the federal/state levels......unfunded pensions...the decline of the US dollar and the subsequent impending inflation.....the collapse of 401K's...out of control health care spending...the exportation of our high-dollar jobs...the collapse of US infrastructure...the average American is going to have less disposable income in future for scuba 'frills'.
...also, there's no denying the fact that the oceans are in a terminal decline...overfishing...development.....pollution.....global warming...we are witnessing the 'last days' of the ocean.....the oceans will remain, but they will be underwater desserts !
....so, if Americans are getting poorer and poorer.....and the oceans continue their inevitable decline.......and the vast majority of diving is done by recreational divers seeking exotic travel (meaning virtually nobody is a serious cave or wreck or 'tech' diver).....with no extra money for trips/travel, and no motive to travel anywhere to see a dead ocean anyway....scuba is doomed, it's just a matter of exactly when the heartbeat finally stops.....
 
....well, considering the ongoing fall of the American 'Empire' (witness 'our' national humiliation across the financial sector....we're no longer the world's economic role model, and we're being surpassed by the 21st century superpowers--China/India) .....the easy money credit/housing bubble collapse....record deficits on the federal/state levels......unfunded pensions...the decline of the US dollar and the subsequent impending inflation.....the collapse of 401K's...out of control health care spending...the exportation of our high-dollar jobs...the collapse of US infrastructure...the average American is going to have less disposable income in future for scuba 'frills'.
...also, there's no denying the fact that the oceans are in a terminal decline...overfishing...development.....pollution.....global warming...we are witnessing the 'last days' of the ocean.....the oceans will remain, but they will be underwater desserts !
....so, if Americans are getting poorer and poorer.....and the oceans continue their inevitable decline.......and the vast majority of diving is done by recreational divers seeking exotic travel (meaning virtually nobody is a serious cave or wreck or 'tech' diver).....with no extra money for trips/travel, and no motive to travel anywhere to see a dead ocean anyway....scuba is doomed, it's just a matter of exactly when the heartbeat finally stops.....

Goddamn, Karl, let's just smoke off all the nukes in one place and see if we can crack the earth's crust while we are at it. It's a DEMA apocalypse thread, not a civilization apocalypse thread.
 
There is much discussion about discontent with DEMA, even discussion that the organization should be disbanded and replaced by something else.

These is a pretty strong need to have a retail situation where potential and new divers are able to purchase the broad variety of equipment and brands they see in advertising from EVERY dive shop. The distribution system must be corrected so that even dealers who maintain less than $50,000 total inventory can participate.



Phil, Can you give me some ideas how this might be accomplished? I just don't see that happening, because it would take more than $50000 to be everything to everybody.
Thanks
 
Scubafanatic has it pretty well nailed. I am old and remember when this was a Great Country. The blame is on the career politicans who have taken all the best for themselves, and sent the U.S.A. into a downhill spiral. They really believe the laws do not apply to them. Both political parties, its a club, a club, and they are all members. It looks like a One World Government is coming. I will not be here to see the final flush, but many of you younger people will. The blame is also on us for the obvious reasons. as for DEMA I did it for many years, did a lot of seminars, made a lot money in the good years. After the last few distasters I am no longer going.
 
Dude, he is right. Probably a year from now you all will be out of business. The problems are bigger than most are admitting.
 
Dude, he is right. Probably a year from now you all will be out of business. The problems are bigger than most are admitting.

that's fine, I choose to die on my feet if so. We can fight or we can just die quietly.
In cave training there is often a story told, of the guy that gets trapped, some fight and are recovered with their fingernails gone and scratch marks on the stone as they fought to the very end, others write a note to their family. I have always felt the diver with bloody hands in fact loved his family the most, he NEVER gave up fighting to see them again.

The dive industry is in a horrible position, and yes so is the economy in general, however we can only fight the battles within our spehere of influence. The truth is the dive industry has UNDER PERFORMED the broader economy, so even now that leaves room for us to actually improve our position. To assume that because the economy is down therefore we "must" be down as well is to assume that we can't do any better and "our lot" in life is fixed in stone. That's crap and that defeats us before we even began.

In short, well if the economy collapses, I will turn to plows or plows to guns, whatever is neccessary to feed and protect my family. That is not certain to happen. In the mean time I will grow my business and spend some effort to growing the industry.

It is certain that there is still an economy and a dive industry, there is room to grow. We need to take that oppurtunity and survive this and set the stage for the future.
 
Scubafanatic has it pretty well nailed. I am old and remember when this was a Great Country. The blame is on the career politicans who have taken all the best for themselves, and sent the U.S.A. into a downhill spiral. They really believe the laws do not apply to them. Both political parties, its a club, a club, and they are all members. It looks like a One World Government is coming. I will not be here to see the final flush, but many of you younger people will. The blame is also on us for the obvious reasons. as for DEMA I did it for many years, did a lot of seminars, made a lot money in the good years. After the last few distasters I am no longer going.

This is still a great country, it's still the greatest country on earth. True, many freedoms are lost to us, such as the freedom to dump **** in the Florida keys, or the freedom to plant sugar int the everglades. Those decisions impacted somebody adversely, and they bitched and grumbled about our socialist government or whatever.

I, however, see the good that comes from that every day. I've only been diving the keys since 1999, but I think we've seen the worst. I used to scratch my head and wonder why anyone would dive here. This year the reefs were the healthiest I've seen in 10 years. The sea urchins population is healthy, staghorn coral is throughout the Dry Tortugas, black coral is a common occurance, 30-40 lb black groupers are seen often, red groupers are seen most every dive, this place has been turned into a place I am proud to bring customers and show them "my" reef.

DEMA has the ability to transform itself back into an organization that supports the diving industry. I don't believe the DEMA board is evil, I think they (like many dive shops) are stuck doing business the way it's always been done, and are trying to force the industry to fit the mold that existed in the '70s. I am a firm believer in supporting the retailer, but I also think the retailer has to learn to go above and beyond if they want to take business from the internet. When I dive travel, I have a shop I call and go where they are going. Why? I just have to give them a credit card, passport, and get on a plane. I don't have the time to research the destination, buy airfare, be all mad when someone else in the group got their airfare for $500 less than I did, forget to plan a day layover to recover from jet lag, etc. etc. I pay a dive shop to do all that for me.

One of the problems with this industry is that it is treated as a joke by both the shops as well as the agencies. The old saying of "it's not the agency, it's the instructor" wink wink? What a bunch of BS. If the agencies really gave a crap about training instead of profits, we'd see a lot more bad instructors taken out of the gene pool. Unfortunately, it's not about the instructor, it's about the agencies profits. And what about the dive shops sending their barely certified open water students to the Flower Gardens for their first trip, on open water dives 5-12? I'm sorry, the Flower Gardens is not creampuff diving. How many certified divers will never dive again because they were either sick for the weekend, or got their asses handed to them on the ladder. Until this industry puts long-term diver retention ahead of short term profits, we will be stuck in the same paradigm (like that word? Hmmm Paradigm Paradigm) that we have been. The whole black market/gray market internet sales thing is crap too. I sat in an Oceanic dealer conference once where the rep looked each dealer in the eye and told them that Oceanic didn't condone gray market sales. CRAP!!!! Oceanic sells their gear wherever and to whomever buys it. Don't feed us crap, we aren't stupid! I only use Oceanic as an example because it's the only dealer conference I ever went to. I don't mean to single them out, I can buy any brand of gear I want on the internet. If the dealers really wanted to help the retailers, they would have one price structure for internet sales and another for retailers. Make the internet guys fully authorized dealers, and charge them 25% more. This puts the dive shop and the internet retailer n the same footing.

Don't treat this industry as a joke, too many people rely on it for a living.

Frank
 
Make the internet guys fully authorized dealers, and charge them 25% more. This puts the dive shop and the internet retailer n the same footing.

Don't treat this industry as a joke, too many people rely on it for a living.

Frank

Some of us online guys are actually just a Dive Shop that works harder to have an online store too. Who is just collecting money on equipment, and who is providing more divers and scuba related opportunities? There are a few of us doing FULL training, doing the same dives, trying to keep people diving locally, AND having an online store....providing the same great pricing to all. There are however some that just teach the basics so they can have product lines to sell online.

Check out our video:
YouTube - Diverightinscuba's Channel

Check out Leisure Pros:
Untitled Document

You can see the difference of what the shops focus is. So you can't just group us all together:D We have divers from all over the country come join our events and buy from us worldwide. Its truely amazing what a small local dive shop can do to compete against the big guys. Phil at Dive Sports is the same....we work hard on ALL aspects of diving, not just selling online gear. Although it is a very good addition to the front door
 
Some of us online guys are actually just a Dive Shop that works harder to have an online store too. Who is just collecting money on equipment, and who is providing more divers and scuba related opportunities? There are a few of us doing FULL training, doing the same dives, trying to keep people diving locally, AND having an online store....providing the same great pricing to all. There are however some that just teach the basics so they can have product lines to sell online.

Check out our video:
YouTube - Diverightinscuba's Channel

Check out Leisure Pros:
Untitled Document

You can see the difference of what the shops focus is. So you can't just group us all together:D We have divers from all over the country come join our events and buy from us worldwide. Its truely amazing what a small local dive shop can do to compete against the big guys. Phil at Dive Sports is the same....we work hard on ALL aspects of diving, not just selling online gear. Although it is a very good addition to the front door

You are right, Mike, I know you, Phil, Mark at FillExpress, Joel at TDL, the guys at Scubatoys and others walk the line between internet and storefront, and I don't mean to lump you in with other retailers. In fact, you are exactly the example I mean when I say that diving has to evolve and change to meet consumers changing needs, wants, and desires.

We book our dive trips partially online, partially through stores. We tried the whole online booking experience, and failed miserably. I have to have store participation to fill my boat.However, old-style scuba shops don't like to book trips with me because they think I compete with them on the internet. Nothing could be further from the truth, suggested retail is suggested retail. I sell the trip for the same price that you would, but you earn commission. For that commission, I would expect you to add value to the trip for the consumer, like supplying a trip leader, booking flights, a pizza party before the trip, whatever you want to do. Many dive shops sell the trip and make their trip leader buy their own air, don't do anything for the travelers extra, and keep the whole commission. That's great, but the traveller will find that he can get much better service elsewhere, and that's where will go. After review of my spending habits, I find that for the same product I am willing to pay more for excellent service (as you provided when I bought cylinders from you). I can walk into any big box scuba store that shall remain nameless and buy the same cylinder for the same price and walk out with it, but the salesman knows how to sell t-shirts, not scuba.

My apologies for the percieved slight.
Frank
 

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