Deep diving advice that goes against conventional thought?

[ajduplessis]

Someone seems to have gotten some sand in some very sensitive areas...
...

Agreed! It called SHS (super hero syndrome). Some serious hero/credentials in this discussion. The rest of the immortal dive community can only dream .......

 

[nimoh]

I am not sure if you were referring to my post, but I am always very much looking forward to learning more about my problems... in case you did, I would be grateful if you could please elaborate on this point... I might as well learn something new in the process.



I personally did not find that participating in a discussion on ScubaBoard would somehow inhibit my ability to make my own decisions... but I am intrigued, because I encounter this attitude here fairly often. Would you care to share a personal story of your own to illustrate this point?

no, I was referring to the post that I quoted.

All I meant by my post was that new divers have a ways to go before they should make a 200' dive, and by the time they are ready for a 200' dive, they are no longer new divers.

 

[rivers]

May I propose a question... most recently, the discussion seemed to be revolving around the sequence, in which various skills and equipment should be introduced, particularly in the context of rebreathers, mixed gases, handling stages or bailout bottles, etc. So, in the interest of the broader audience, and to reconnect this discussion to the world of an average diver... suppose that a beginning non-commercial, non-Navy, just an ordinary beginning tech diver wants to entertain the thought of eventually making that 200 FW wreck dive in some small number of years (say 3, or whatever round number you think is appropriate), he/she is willing to allocate sufficient funds for all the required training and equipment without cutting corners or taking unsafe shortcuts (including progressive deep dives, Trimix, rebreathers, or whatever else comes to mind), and will prioritize safety over anything else. What would be the most optimal progression of training, equipment, experience, and deliberate practice that would get them to where they would like to be in a reasonable amout of time?

I'll chime in with how I'm going about things. I'm not sure I'll ever be doing 200ft dives, but I am moving towards technical at the moment. First thing I did was take fundies, got a provisional first time around. Managed to pass second time around. I also took the GUE doubles/twinset primer. I've been diving a twinset now for about a year and half and have around 175 dives or so in it. I would suggest taking either fundies or intro to tech (IANTD, TDI, etc) from a respected, well-known instructor whose teaching style is compatible with your learning style. You can have the world's top rated technical instructor, but if his/her teaching style and your learning style don't mesh, you're not going to get the most out of the course. Do a sh*t-ton of diving in your already qualified range. Get used to diving the set, be proficient in shut-downs and your kit as a whole. Take a deco procedures (and possibly advanced nitrox) course. Start doing a bit of deco in "recreational ranges" (0-130 feet). This is where I am at the moment, except I'm keeping my dives to a maximum of about 110-112ft. This summer, I'm taking GUE's Rec 3 course, which gives me a trimix and 130ft ticket (as well as a deco stage). My plan is to dive the sh*t out of this range for a few years before considering advancing to the tech 1 (or other agency equivalent level). I may not even advance to the tech 1 level. It will depend on how much mix diving I'm actually able to do.
But, be proficient in your kit. My jump to a twinset was fairly easy. I was already diving a bp/w with a hog loop reg set-up, so it was more weight on my back and i had to learn to do a valve drill. So I did a bunch of diving in it to get comfortable, get my buoyancy re-sorted. Don't change any kit before a course, but be prepared for your instructor to complete deconstruct your kit and chuck stuff in a bin.
So in short: Fundies, intro to tech, UTD essentials or some such similar course. Do a bunch of diving. Start doing some "recreational range deco". Rec 3, Advanced Recreational Trimix or some such similar course. Do a bunch of diving. Tech 1, Normoxic trimix or similar. Do a bunch of diving (if i were contemplating going deeper, i would probably start rebreather training somewhere in here). Tech 1+/2, Hypoxic trimix or similar. I know in the UK, one of the local inland quarries (I say local, it's 2 hours away from me) has a week-long event every summer called "Tek Camp". They get the top technical instructors in the UK (from all agencies) in one place, and you sign-up to do workshops with up to 10 (i think) of them. So you get to test drive instructors and agencies to see what works for you. Plus there are talks, BBQs, camping, drunken run-ins with cops, etc. I wonder if there is something similar where you are.

 

[DaleC]

You left out that fact that I only have 42 posts. So if I list all my cert's since 1975 along with a really cool avatar do I then gain your trust? Let me know because that is really important to me.

The sarcasm in your post only invalidates and devalues your own position. If you don't care what I think why should I care what you think. Mutual respect for the person, if not the position, is the basis of civil discourse. If you can't see why hiding behind anonymity limits the value placed on your opinion all I can say is you are going to have a frustrating time on the open forums, especially if you insist on calling others out.

Adhere to Rule #1, and the rest sorts its self out.
JadairIII and PFcAJ just remember what Mark Twain said "Don't argue with idiots, they only bring you down to thier level and beat with you with experience!"

So, anyone who might disagree with your position is an idiot. Got it. Here's a thought. You and a few others seem to be wanting to attract people to your regime yet that attitude is exactly what pushes people away and what so many intelligent proponents work hard to counteract. From my experience in many threads involving participation by GUE, UTD instructors and even JJ himself, that attitude, and that of your pal's are never expressed. It would seem the teaching cadre prefers polite discussion over name calling.

---------- Post added April 1st, 2014 at 06:23 PM ----------

I would agree that the rebreather is not needed by most divers in the US....and that the underwater photographers that think they need one to become silent underwater ( for better access to some fish) would be far better off with a project argonaut system...with fine sponge added to filter the exhaust and eliminate bubble noise......Jack Kellon showed me this when he was developing the precursors to the Halcyon RB80...the BMD rebreather and the Odyssey

see
View attachment 180940
Vintage Double Hose | Fundable - Crowdfunding for Small Businesses





Like a vitange double hose reg for open circuit, but brand new....and with traditional 2nd stage for donating.
It is not going to be DIR for handing off a primary in an OOA emergency, but considering the MISSION of pro level u/w photography, and the choices and implications, I think this is way smarter than the rebreather--it could easily have prevented the death of Wes Skiles.
As it was in the good ole days :
View attachment 180941

As someone who routinely dives doubles configured exactly as shown with the double hose I have to agree that it is a good tool for recreational depth photography/observation. However, it has all the operational limits of OC diving. I would not choose it to move into deep diving, which is what this thread is about. It can be done but there are some issues that arise that make it increasingly sub optimal.

But more importantly, much of diving is about choice, not need. No one needs to dive deep (excluding occupational dives) or dive caves or penetrate wrecks. Those are all choices. If we were discussing need most points would lead to ROV's which are overall the safest way to explore depth. Some people choose to do 26,000' penetrations, others choose to dive RB's. The discussion should be how to do each as safely as possible.