Deep Diver Specialty vs Advanced Open Water

[bradlw]

I asked this recently as a sidebar in a different thread but maybe it was lost in the clutter since it wasn't the primary question

regarding some operators requiring Advanced Open water cert to go on some trips (such as the USCGC Duane or the Spiegel Grove)
Will someone that has completed the full Deep Diver Specialty certification course be allowed on these, or do they require the Advanced card regardless?

I asked, because in my research to understand how Adv Open water is conducted these days (it's been a long time since I went through it, + my experience was with only one of the agencies (SSI))
I discovered that some of the Adv OW courses are centered around taking some number of specialty courses...but it seems that the courses are not the full specialty course, more like an abbreviated taste of it to introduce the topic.
So
If advanced OW includes an introduction to deep + some other introductions, my thought is taking the full Deep course might be better at preparing a diver to go on a deeper wreck

I understand that the advanced course will also likely include navigation that might also be very useful, but from what I can tell, in most cases there is no requirement to take things that would really improve a diver's skill in regard to diving the deeper or more challenging dives (such as bouyancy vs photograpy or fish identification for example)
and I fully understand that it's good to be on the path for Advanced... but still I think taking the full deep specialty is likely a better use of $$ than taking a bunch of abbreviated instructions

 

[rick00001967]

i see no reason why any shop would not accept the deep diver specialty instead of advanced.

and yes, you are correct that (for example) the padi adv is a "taste" of a handful of different specialty dives, where ssi adv is the completion of certain full specialty courses,

 

[scubadada]

@bradlw

You have 2 questions

• What do operators ask for? They ask for AOW. I already replied in the other thread that nobody has ever asked for my Deep Diver certification. Would it be accepted in lieu of AOW? I don't know, you should ask the operator.
• What gives more experience for a new diver for deeper diving? The Deep Diver specialty does. AOW has a single dive, usually to about 100 feet. The specialty has 4 dives, one of the dives is often to 130 feet.

 

[also_anon_dc]

Sure, maybe it's possible to take Deep Diver without being AOW but I would not advise it. The standard requirement across dive shops is OW for "easy" dives or AOW "harder" dives. Having Deep without AOW would be an outlier case and you'd spend a lot of time explaining to shops what your certification level is.

 

[boulderjohn]

AOW was created originally by Los Angeles County, followed by NAUI, for the purpose of getting divers interested in a variety of kinds of diving in the hope it would pique their interests and keep them diving. At the time it was created, it was the most advanced class available other than instructor certification, so it made sense to call it advanced. It doesn't make as much sense any more.

As mentioned above, someone with the deep dive certification but no AOW would be a rare being, so I doubt shops have an existing policy for it. I am sure they would accept the deep diver certification for it, though.

SSI does have an advanced certification that requires 5 full specialties, but they also have one that does not. Taking 5 full specialties makes the certification more advanced, but you might end up taking (and paying for) specialties you don't really need just to get the Advanced certification card. In most of those areas, the introductory lesson in a standard AOW course is all you need.

 

[BoltSnap]

AOW was created originally by Los Angeles County, followed by NAUI, for the purpose of getting divers interested in a variety of kinds of diving in the hope it would pique their interests and keep them diving. At the time it was created, it was the most advanced class available other than instructor certification, so it made sense to call it advanced. It doesn't make as much sense any more.

Not certain that this is entirely accurate. NAUI had a third-level course called "Advanced," where one had to go through two courses before this "advanced" course/rating. It was a much more intense course, not just a "sampler" course. Of course, NAUI training evolved and became more streamlined over the years. In the early years, most people went through a very intensive "Basic" course that was more intense and advanced than the current entry-level courses.

 

[lowwall]

It's the dive operator that imposes any requirements for anything beyond OW, so the only way to get an answer to your question is to contact the op and ask.

But in general, you won't have an issue with an AOW or equivalent card, while having just the Deep means an endless number of tiresome conversations.

 

[boulderjohn]

Not certain that this is entirely accurate. NAUI had a third-level course called "Advanced," where one had to go through two courses before this "advanced" course/rating. It was a much more intense course, not just a "sampler" course. Of course, NAUI training evolved and became more streamlined over the years. In the early years, most people went through a very intensive "Basic" course that was more intense and advanced than the current entry-level courses.

My information comes from The History of NAUI, written by NAUI founder Al Tillman and others. This was in the mid 1960s.

 

[Rebreather Rabbit]

regarding some operators requiring Advanced Open water cert to go on some trips (such as the USCGC Duane or the Spiegel Grove)
Will someone that has completed the full Deep Diver Specialty certification course be allowed on these, or do they require the Advanced card regardless?

Most if not all operators want to see AOW in South Florida including in the Keys. Deep doesn't cut it.

The Deep Diver Specialty Cert can be as little as 2 dives. Dive one to not exceed 100 FT, Dive 2 to not exceed 130 FT with a simulated emergency. Monitor for signs of narcosis and record depth/gas usage/time. That's it for required 'new' skills.

AOW basically includes the first of those 2 deep dives, and a navigation dive. Beyond that there's at least 3 more dives, both focused on some specialty.

From the operators perspective, Deep would mean you might only have 6 dives under your belt, and you did a bounce dive below 100 FT. AOW means you've had at least 9 dives, and you should know how to navigate underwater and get back to the boat if you are given directions and distances during a brief.

 

[Centrals]

The final decision is on the operator.
I have both PADI AOW and Deep Specialty. When I completed the AOW in 1996, the limit was 40m but has since changed to 30m!
IANTD Tec Nitrox card is the one that I have been using for many yrs, no need to argue.