divemed
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I am inclined to go with the simplest answer, and agree with Techie. Are you consciously or unconsciously using larger breaths for bouancy control at depth?
Deep breathing at depth
- Thread starter JeffMandell
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OP
JeffMandell
Guest
Answers:
1. My suit fits fine
2. My reg is an Atomic B1; it's terrific and draws great.
3. I'm pretty comfortable in the water. Not quite yet at 100 dives, but I'll get there by the summer. I could always be more relaxed, I suppose, but this only happens below about 50 feet, so I dont' think it's anxious breathing.4. 4.I've got pretty good buoyancy.
Other input most welcomed.
1: if you were to hold your breath your lungs would be compressed, as you are breathing air at *ambiant* pressure the pressure inside your chest is the same as that outside. Therefore your lungs are not compressed.
2:The air is denser at depth (twice as dence at 30ft than on the surface) but at 50ft this shouldnt even begin to worry you (unless you are very in tune with your body you wouldnt even notice)
So onto some reasons why:
Is your suit too tight? even a slightly over tight suit on the surface may make your chest feel constricted at depth
How good are your regs? do they have 'dial-a-breath' or venturi systems? are they adjusted correctly? (if you'd like some advice on how to use them properly drop me a line)
Are you uncomfortable in the water? if you havnt been diving long the fact that you are deepish can have huge phsycological effects on all aspects of your body, add slight narcosis and away you go.
Is your bouyancy correct? finning and fighting to stay off the bottom is a large workload, ask your buddy how you sit in the water, if you are 45 degrees or even upright this may be a bad sign.
How to fix it, well get to where you notice its a problem, dump all your bouyancy and kneel firmly on the bottom. Relax. Try breathing from your aas, or adjusting the controls on your reg.. Play about, see what works.
Mike[/QUOTE]
1. My suit fits fine
2. My reg is an Atomic B1; it's terrific and draws great.
3. I'm pretty comfortable in the water. Not quite yet at 100 dives, but I'll get there by the summer. I could always be more relaxed, I suppose, but this only happens below about 50 feet, so I dont' think it's anxious breathing.4. 4.I've got pretty good buoyancy.
Other input most welcomed.
1: if you were to hold your breath your lungs would be compressed, as you are breathing air at *ambiant* pressure the pressure inside your chest is the same as that outside. Therefore your lungs are not compressed.
2:The air is denser at depth (twice as dence at 30ft than on the surface) but at 50ft this shouldnt even begin to worry you (unless you are very in tune with your body you wouldnt even notice)
So onto some reasons why:
Is your suit too tight? even a slightly over tight suit on the surface may make your chest feel constricted at depth
How good are your regs? do they have 'dial-a-breath' or venturi systems? are they adjusted correctly? (if you'd like some advice on how to use them properly drop me a line)
Are you uncomfortable in the water? if you havnt been diving long the fact that you are deepish can have huge phsycological effects on all aspects of your body, add slight narcosis and away you go.
Is your bouyancy correct? finning and fighting to stay off the bottom is a large workload, ask your buddy how you sit in the water, if you are 45 degrees or even upright this may be a bad sign.
How to fix it, well get to where you notice its a problem, dump all your bouyancy and kneel firmly on the bottom. Relax. Try breathing from your aas, or adjusting the controls on your reg.. Play about, see what works.
Mike[/QUOTE]
Wreckie
Guest
Go try the ideas i offered, everyone *thinks* things are fine until they are shown that they are not, i used to think my regs breathed great until i started diving for a living using very expensive helmets, then i realised how restrictive they realy were.
>I suppose, but this only happens below about 50 feet, so I dont' think it's anxious breathing.
What logic are you using to support this? I would say that anxious breathing is most likely to occur under stress, look in any rescue manual you like and under stress factors you'll likely find the following: Depth, cold (a function of depth), darkness (a function of depth), narcosis (a function of depth), task loading, bouyancy problems, unusual situations (being deep).
Ask your buddy for honest answers to some of these questions:
How comfortable do i look in the water?
Do i have any expression on my face underwater? (bug eyes, grimacing etc)
What angle do i swim through the water at? (horizintal, feet down)
Do you think im breathing fast? (best to ask them to watch this before you get in)
Dont overlook the fact that you arnt breathing fast at all, just experiencing the natural increased consumption rate at depth.
Easy to check this, get a pony filled to a known pressure. breath for 10 minutes on the surface, work out your air consumption rate (SAC).
Now refill the cylinder and take it diving, go to 60ft, switch to the pony and do the same again. This time time how long it takes to breath say 500psi (it wont last 10 minutes at this depth). When you get back work out the air consumption at depth.
Convert this to SAC (in metric thats done by air per minute / absolute pressure, not sure how youd do it in empirial (psi etc)).
They should be roughly the same numbers, if there is a large difference then at least it proves either your maths sucks or you do have a problem.
Mike
>I suppose, but this only happens below about 50 feet, so I dont' think it's anxious breathing.
What logic are you using to support this? I would say that anxious breathing is most likely to occur under stress, look in any rescue manual you like and under stress factors you'll likely find the following: Depth, cold (a function of depth), darkness (a function of depth), narcosis (a function of depth), task loading, bouyancy problems, unusual situations (being deep).
Ask your buddy for honest answers to some of these questions:
How comfortable do i look in the water?
Do i have any expression on my face underwater? (bug eyes, grimacing etc)
What angle do i swim through the water at? (horizintal, feet down)
Do you think im breathing fast? (best to ask them to watch this before you get in)
Dont overlook the fact that you arnt breathing fast at all, just experiencing the natural increased consumption rate at depth.
Easy to check this, get a pony filled to a known pressure. breath for 10 minutes on the surface, work out your air consumption rate (SAC).
Now refill the cylinder and take it diving, go to 60ft, switch to the pony and do the same again. This time time how long it takes to breath say 500psi (it wont last 10 minutes at this depth). When you get back work out the air consumption at depth.
Convert this to SAC (in metric thats done by air per minute / absolute pressure, not sure how youd do it in empirial (psi etc)).
They should be roughly the same numbers, if there is a large difference then at least it proves either your maths sucks or you do have a problem.
Mike
Wreckie:
I thought you said something else...and I was wondering if methane was even breathable.
OP
JeffMandell
Guest
Wreckie:
I will try some of your suggestions, so thanks.
However, I want to be sure I am communicating the particular problem I'm having. It has to do with filling my lungs to maximum capacity.
For example, and this is obviously a guesstimate, let's say that on land, while I'm sitting in front of my computer, I'm breathing gently and using 50% of my maximum lung capacity. Let's also say that while diving at shallower depths, I'm using70-75% of lung capacity, both because of the greater exertion and because I'm intentionally making my breathing slower and deeper for efficient CO2/oxygen exchange. My problem is that as I descend, my lungs seem to demand a greater fill level - to 95 percent. It's not harder to draw from the reg, it's a greater volume to fill. And that makes me blast through my air supply too fast.
Any further thoughts, anyone?
I will try some of your suggestions, so thanks.
However, I want to be sure I am communicating the particular problem I'm having. It has to do with filling my lungs to maximum capacity.
For example, and this is obviously a guesstimate, let's say that on land, while I'm sitting in front of my computer, I'm breathing gently and using 50% of my maximum lung capacity. Let's also say that while diving at shallower depths, I'm using70-75% of lung capacity, both because of the greater exertion and because I'm intentionally making my breathing slower and deeper for efficient CO2/oxygen exchange. My problem is that as I descend, my lungs seem to demand a greater fill level - to 95 percent. It's not harder to draw from the reg, it's a greater volume to fill. And that makes me blast through my air supply too fast.
Any further thoughts, anyone?
NWGratefulDiver:
Pulled that one out of his aas.
sharkmasterbc
Contributor
Get yourself a bigger tank...
Wreckie
Guest
JeffMandell:
Thats your problem right there, your intentionaly hyperventilating (not too fast, too much) in the mistaken belief that its good for you. What your slow deep breathing is in fact doing is flushing out all the CO2 in your system. CO2 is the trigger for you to breath. Without it your breathing rythmn will get all messed up. Its similar to the kids game of breathing in such a way as to make yourself faint. (and to do it you breath in just the way you discribe).
Your thinking about it too much, read the books and they say breath 'normally'. On the surface normal breathing is in/out/pause/in/out/pause, in the water it tends to chainge to in/pause/out/in/pause/out. By trying to controle your breathing you may be eliminating or re-locating your natural pause, this will cause you to pant just as if you were running.
so how to fix it? stop trying.
Mike
J1M1
Guest
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