Decision for buying 3d or 2d gauge ?

[victorzamora]

You don't use the octopus frequently, that's true. However, if you ever need it it NEEDS to work very well. That's why people recommend getting identical second stages.

Another thing I'd like to mention is this: Don't buy gear yet. I know it's tempting, and I know you think you've found a good deal. You're not even certified. Take your time, get certified, rent some gear, and figure out what you like. Not just "someone said Mares was good" or "that was cheaper" but really learn the little things that you may or may not want. The only way to know is to dive.

As far as the gauges go, I don't have a depth gauge or compass on my console. I like the smallest, lightest thing possible. However, I rarely dive a compass and I own a computer

 

[Colliam7]

Is it so often to use the octopus? Do you really recommend to buy same level as mares 2S regulator?

I use the octo infrequently. BUT, I always dive with two identical second stages, for any number of reasons. It simplifies service - the same parts kit fits both, and I always travel with a spare parts kit for my first stage and for my second stage, in case they are not available locally. Second, in an OOA situation, I donate the primary second stage - the one in my mouth - and go to my alternate / back-up second stage. In that case, I want a second stage that performs as well as my primary. That is also an infrequent situation, but I don't want to ever have to deal with a poorly performing, needlessly 'detuned' alternate second stage, nor would I want to donate one to a OOA diver on the edge of, or in, full-blown panic.

As far as the gauges go, I don't have a depth gauge or compass on my console. I like the smallest, lightest thing possible. However, I rarely dive a compass and I own a computer

And, KUDOS to Victor, for actually bringing the thread back to the title of, and the main question in, your original post! I don't dive with a console at all. I use a SPG only on the HP hose, clipped to a hip D ring, and a comp-uter on my wrist, and a compass on my wrist, or on a retractror clipped to a shoulder D-ring. So, I originally said a 2 gauge console was better than a 3 gauge unit. And, I would say that no console is better than a 2 gauge unit.

 

[WarriorWolf]

I'm really happy to get rich and helpful information about diving .. really thanks

Regarding to your considerable ideas and suggestions, I would like to investigate more about diving skills and experiences . I liked your aspects of experience

A balanced regulator is designed to maintain its ease-of-breathing regardless of depth or tank pressure. In contrast, a diver breathing from an unbalanced regulator will notice that breathing resistance (the amount of effort it takes to draw a breath from the second stage) increases with depth or as the scuba tank pressure becomes lower. In the 21st century, there is no reason for a recreational diver to buy an unbalanced regulator, simply because it is less expensive.

OK ... this is important, because I want to breath nicely ..

Now I have to change the option of unbalanced regulator to balanced regulator >> got it !!

OK, fair enough. Let me ask a few questions: a) WHAT SPECIFICALLY is attractive about the particular BCD, as one example, in the package? I am not saying it is 'bad', rather asking what you specifically like about it.; b) WHY did you pick a Mares package (other than an instructor told you it is good gear)? Why not the Oceanic, or the Aeris, or the Genesis, or the TUSA package? Just curious.Mares IS good equipment. My comments about the package are really unrelated to the brand. Many / most manufacturer offers 2-3 'levels' of gear, particularly in regulators, but also in BCDs, etc - low, medium, and high end. What you often find is that the low end is cheap, but is gear that is ultimately replaced soon because of issues of functionality - it doesn't wear out, rather the diver comes to realize, as s/he gains experience, that they bought something that won't allow them to grow as a diver. The high end gear is often burdened with 'bells and whistles' that offer nothing as far as helping the diver develop, but add significantly to the price.

Well, first I liked Mares Prestige for $299.95 in another package, because I liked its colors and the design. Also, I find Mares to me have various set of equipment. Then, I found their packages reasonable to me.

After that, I went for cheaper BCD which is Mares Spirit for $188.10. Another very important reason is the size, I tried the XS in the shop and it was very good, also the size chart for Mares BCDs which actually I found it in Mares Prestige page helped me more ..

The other trade marks I thought about, and then I went to go for final decisions, also because I liked the raptor fins from Mares

Mares Raptor Open Heel Split Scuba Diving Fin - Swim Fin - JoeDiverAmerica.com, I also want your comment about it

OK .. with your information about the regulators .. I'm considering to not think about the package.

Also, what about the BCD, it's cheap, is it important to buy a cheap BCD? I don't know, it could be important

At this point, given what you have communicated, I STRONGLY encourage you wait - stop, take a breath, think about using rental gear as available, then finish your training and try different gear configurations (e.g. a jacket BCD vs. a back-inflation BCD), BEFORE investing in gear. You are proposing to spend money on a 'package' that is a) overpriced for what you are getting, b) not necessarily gear that will serve the serious diver in the long run. Basically, I ask you to ask yourself, 'Do I have enough experience to make an intelligent and informed gear selection decision?'

They actually asked me to buy certain equipment before starting the training. They offer the BCD, tank and regulator, and I've to buy the rest. I think they wouldn't offer XS for me in training .. so I thought about it, then I concluded that it would be better to buy most of the equipment, also not very expensive ..

That's why I chose the Mares package, it costs about $630.13 .. a BCD, regulator, octopus, console .. these most of the equipment, then I have to buy a mask, fins and a tank ..

a) overpriced !! do you mean, they offered it with more what it costs?
b) no ,, I payed reasonable thinking for sizes and prices and I'm still searching, and the package now is out of my equipment configuration plan, I have to look for balanced regulator.

Now, having said that, will the gear in the package 'work'? Yes, you can dive safely with it. Is it worth the price? Possibly, possibly not. Is there better gear (not necessarily brand, rather model and functionality) out there which would represent a better value? Probably. I fully understand that the allure of 'new gear, my gear, I own it, I can use it whenever' is very compelling. And, sometimes people make purchasing decisions simply because that allure is irresistible. This is a good example of why you should pause, or rather seek local advice. (In fairness, I do not know where you are - region / country - nor do I know what kind of very good advice, or completely useless rubbish, you may be getting from a local dive shop.)

I'm from Saudi Arabia on the red sea .. now I'm in the south-west of the kingdom. It's very nice small city and they say there are nice islands for diving. And you're right I like to purchase the equipment .. according to the advice, now I'm in small city and there are several dive shops, the shop which I registered with, I talked with trainers, though, I like to learn more ..

The primary / main / essentially single most important issue with a mask is FIT. Have you tried an Ocean Quest Arctic Clear High Definition mask on to see if it fits YOUR FACE? The specifications on the website say it is suited for a medium-large face. Does that describe your face? Do you really want a purge mask? If so, and you know it this one fits you, then the price is pretty low, and it may be a good buy. The same website page shows a dry snorkel right next to it, also for a low price. Do you really want a dry snorkel, irrespective of price? If so, why? Some / many people (myself included) would tell you that a dry snorkel is essentially unnecessary for diving, in fact it is an annoyance because the weight of the dry valve at the end of the snorkel makes it feel a bit awkward on your head.

Yes, I tried couple of masks at the shop and I had little problem, because I have such a long nose .. like the eagle

then I tried another one of scuba-pro and it was similar to the others .. then, I saw these kind of masks in websites like eBay and Joe divers which have a big nose .. so they are for people like me

Then, I had this offer on my email .. and I thought I would be nice, and in regard to the snorkel, I think it would be helpful for snorkeling .. I like to buy it with the mask, because I might like to swim in low depth areas.

And, the suit is where I would spend my money at the beginning. A good quality exposure suit, that FITS YOU will be worth whatever you pay for it. (The only gear that I do not buy used are exposure suits, wet or dry. ) And sizes are not the same across manufacturers. This item, like a mask, is something you need to try on, actually try several brands / models. A poorly fitting exposure suit, just l;ike a poorly fitting mask, will annoy you on each and every dive. Buying online to save money is not a good idea, for 'fit' items.every dive.

I think numbers are enough, because they provide a rang of the size .. so when I want to choose one starts from 115lbs to 125lbs, for example and I weight 115lbs .. so is it good strategy to assume the right size?

In the end, it is your money, you should spend it as you wish. What you buy has no impact on those of us on SB offering opinions. But, you would be well-served to consider waiting until you gain a bit of experience, and you would be well-served to consider working with a local outlet on at least some gear.

Well, it's my money and I don't want to get in trouble of getting an equipment and send it back and pay more for shipping process .. that's why I'm going in this investigation with experienced people like you ..

And .. really thank you for your support and looking forward to dive with you one day

 

[Colliam7]

Also, what about the BCD, it's cheap, is it important to buy a cheap BCD? I don't know, it could be important . . . After that, I went for cheaper BCD which is Mares Spirit for $188.10. Another very important reason is the size, I tried the XS in the shop and it was very good, also the size chart for Mares BCDs which actually I found it in Mares Prestige page helped me more ..

OK, fair enough. You have identified an inexpensive BCD that should fit you well. Selection of the best BCD is an entire discussion in itself. And, there are many, many, many threads on SB on that very topic. I personally prefer a back-inflation BCD, with minimal padding. I find that a typical jacket BCD is inherently buoyant, and I have to add more weight to my belt to compensate for that, which tends to pull my feet down in the water, which compromises my horizontal trim.

. . . also because I liked the raptor fins from Mares. I also want your comment about it

Fin style is a matter of personal preference. I happen to not prefer split fins. Other posters here on SB will possibly say that they like them, they find them easier on the knees, etc. I have used splits, even owned a pair at one time. They just don't work well for me, as splits are not optimal for frog kicking. In the Mares line, my long-standing favorite is the Quattro (https://www.joediveramerica.com/page/JDA/PROD/fin/410000).

They actually asked me to buy certain equipment before starting the training. They offer the BCD, tank and regulator, and I've to buy the rest. I think they wouldn't offer XS for me in training .. so I thought about it, then I concluded that it would be better to buy most of the equipment, also not very expensive ..

Having you buy the mask, fins, boots, and snorkel, even an exposure suit is common practice. These are considered 'personal' items and gear that any diver will need.

If you have tried on an XS BCD, and know that it fits you well, but the shop will / can not put you in an XS BCD for training, then buying gear may make sense. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to learn to dive with equipment that just does not fit you. In that case, buying some inexpensive equipment, and realizing that you may decide to change after you finish your training is not necessarily bad. I buy and use inexpensive an BCD in the pool for teaching OW students, because the chlorine damages the gear - quickly in the case of my exposure suit, over several years in the case of my BCD.

I'm from Saudi Arabia on the red sea .. now I'm in the south-west of the kingdom. It's very nice small city and they say there are nice islands for diving. And you're right I like to purchase the equipment .. according to the advice, now I'm in small city and there are several dive shops, the shop which I registered with, I talked with trainers, though, I like to learn more ..

So, perhaps you are somewhere in the Jizan area? I have not had the pleasure of visiting that part of the kingdom, or diving the Red Sea. I visited the kingdom several times in 90's, but was in Riyadh, teaching at KSU in the College of Pharmacy.

Yes, I tried couple of masks at the shop and I had little problem, because I have such a long nose .. like the eagle

then I tried another one of scuba-pro and it was similar to the others .. then, I saw these kind of masks in websites like eBay and Joe divers which have a big nose .. so they are for people like me . . . Then, I had this offer on my email .. and I thought I would be nice, and in regard to the snorkel, I think it would be helpful for snorkeling .. I like to buy it with the mask, because I might like to swim in low depth areas.

I am glad you tried on a mask in the shop, and saw that there might be problems with fit. That is why, irrespective of what you might read on a website, or in an email, it is very important to try a mask on before you buy. In fact, it is ideal to dive with a mask before you buy, if at all possible. I am certainly not trying to convince you to buy all gear from a shop instead of buying online, either. BUT, for 'fit' items, there may be an advantage.

I think numbers are enough, because they provide a rang of the size .. so when I want to choose one starts from 115lbs to 125lbs, for example and I weight 115lbs .. so is it good strategy to assume the right size?

Generally, yes, that should work. The only challenge is to be sure that your 'frame' is consistent with your weight. For example, if you weigh 115 lbs, but are actually 6' 1" tall, then you have a very slender physique, which is fine, but an exposure suit made for the 'average' 115lb diver would probably have arms and legs that are far too short. I am not saying that you are 6' 1" tall (since you also say that an XS BCD fits you well), just using that as an example. Because fit is so important, I like to try on a particular brand / model of exposure suit before buying - just my preference. Yes, buying locally may cost a bit more in many cases, but I don't have to buy, then r\ship back, etc. Just a thought.

 

[WarriorWolf]

You've been to Saudi Arabia wahaha .. that's really nice .. I met wonderful teachers .. well most of them were from Europe in terms of education, so it was academic and normal college relationships, they were nice people .. though.


In regard to the mask, I have to buy it online there is no big nose masks in Jizan because I couldn't find them.


OK .. I'm happy with your instructions and constructive suggestions about buying equipment .. I may ask you later for other important issues.

---------- Post added February 21st, 2014 at 09:04 AM ----------

Do you mean the unbalanced regs? if you regarding unbalanced regs, then you mean they work fine in low pressure which is not very deep .. lower than 5 meters I think >> I don't know much about pressure below 2 or 3 meters.

 

[victorzamora]

Any reg should work under 5 meters. Most regs will work well-enough through at least 20m.....balanced or unbalanced, piston or diaphragm.....as long as they're well maintained and well tuned.

 

[halocline]

A balanced regulator is designed to maintain its ease-of-breathing regardless of depth or tank pressure. In contrast, a diver breathing from an unbalanced regulator will notice that breathing resistance (the amount of effort it takes to draw a breath from the second stage) increases with depth or as the scuba tank pressure becomes lower.

Half right. A balanced 1st stage provides stable IP regardless of tank pressure. Balancing has nothing to do with depth compensation. All first stages compensate for depth in the same way, which is by exposing part of the regulator to ambient pressure which then causes the regulator to automatically add ambient pressure to the IP. If they did not do this, they would not work for diving at any significant depth.

This business of confusing depth compensation with balancing is right out of PADI literature and manufacturers' sales literature, and it's commonly repeated. That doesn't make it true.

The other part, about unbalanced regs breathing resistance increasing as tank pressure decreases, is technically true IF the unbalanced first stage is a piston (all currently produced unbalanced 1st stages are piston to my knowledge) AND if paired with an unbalanced 2nd stage. However, correctly adjusted, this increase is very slight and not noticeable to most divers until the tank pressure is quite low, like under 500 PSI. As an example, a MK2/R190 will not perform as well as a MK25/G250, but, tune both of them and try them out on a standard recreational dive and most divers would barely notice a difference.

Many rental regulators are unbalanced piston/unbalanced 2nd stages. This is due to cost and simplicity. Also, many rental regulators are not tuned well. Ergo, many rental regulators don't perform well, but this has more to do with the poor tuning and maintenance than the design of the regulator.

Getting back to the OP, I am personally not a fan of Mares regulators and I don't generally like the 'package' purchase concept, so I probably would not advise buying a mares package. But that's personal preference.

 

[KD8NPB]

I hate to bring up this bandwagon but:
A used US Divers / Aqualung Conshelf XIV (14) would be a much better investment.

It is a balanced, open diaphragm 1st stage that takes common, easy to find parts.
The 1st stage is made of solid brass...while it is an open diaphragm, I've never had one freeze.
The 2nd stage is a downstream demand lever type.
The 2nd stage is made of solid brass...it tends to hold heat, making it suitable for colder water.

You can find one with 1st & 2nd stage, octo, BC hose, and an analog console for about $100. To get it serviced, expect to spend about $50-$60 in parts + labor (~$75) + a hose replacement or two if it needs it. HP hoses tend to go bad over time. HP hoses run about $35 each, LP hoses run about $25 each.

The Conshelf XIV, while discontinued from the recreational lineup, is still being made for Law Enforcement and Government agencies around the world. It has been in production for near 40 years.