December 5th Molokini backwall dive

[Uncle Pug]

If I were a Captain looking at the sheet with info on that day's divers and saw that several of them had very little experience, then I'd be very reluctant to do a live drop in deep water.

I didn't think we had any divers on that trip with very little experience. That is all the more reason to go six pack with folks you know.

 

[boomx5]

San Jose / Los Gatos.

Are you planning on diving while your in town?

 

[Charlie99]

Are you planning on diving while your in town?

Not until this warm-water-wuss gets a drysuit, and the viz at Monterey gets better than 30'. I rarely dive locally either here or Massachusetts.

 

[DiverDebbie]

hey Tim... too bad... would like to join you on that backwall dive, but it's bad timing for me as that's the day Kevin flies out (have a nice flight home... I'm going diving today... hehe.. don't think that would be very nice!) Besides, we'd like to do the backwall dive together prior to that.

Reading through this, and other posts... I'm getting a bit concerned about conditions? I understand that mornings are best, and that bad weather can call a dive anywhere, but is it fairly common that trips to Molokini, (specifically the backwall) don't happen? I assume this is usually due to current? ...and/or rough surface conditions? The advantage of a smaller boat is less divers of course, but are there days when only the larger boats can make it?

I'm sorry, but I don't get the "let's just see what experience we have on board and where everyone feels like diving today" mentality. That's ok for picking from a few similar sites (or picking a shore dive site), but if one wants to do a specific site... a particular wreck... or the backwall, for example, then why get stuck on a boat full of newbie divers, or divers who did the backwall yesterday and miss out? I did a Vancouver Island charter awhile ago to do a particular wreck and a particular drift dive... thoughtfully planned for that day based on tide/current tables. Anyone not experiecend enough for a deep and a drift dive doesn't go... simple (and it was a fabulous dive day). So I want to go with a charter that plans their dives to the backwall and books only divers experienced enough to do so. Then IF the conditions are honestly too terrible for it, then well.. what can one do... of course there are never any guarantees on the weather. I see there are shops that have backwall dives, as well as trips to Lanai scheduled... so is diving where one wants to really too much to expect?

 

[Charlie99]

... but is it fairly common that trips to Molokini, (specifically the backwall) don't happen? I assume this is usually due to current? ...and/or rough surface conditions? The advantage of a smaller boat is less divers of course, but are there days when only the larger boats can make it?

There are a just a few days when the swell in the channel at the Kihei boat ramp is large enough that boats won't go out, but a couple of large boats from Lahaina Harbor and Maalea harbor can get out there. Those days are generally pretty lousy diving and snorkeling.

Molokini crater is diveable more days than most sites, since the crater provides shelter from many directions, and since it is out in the middle of the channel in deep water, the viz doesn't degrade that much from storm swells. OTOH, the viz goes down at the inshore sites on S. Maui whenever you get a good storm swell. This means that everybody will be doing both dives out at the crater.

The backwall gets more swell than does the inside of the crater. Since it's deep water right up to the wall, it's mostly just long period smooth swell with some interference patterns from the backswell bouncing off the wall. A good swell will cause surge down at the normal 70-80' dive depth, but nothing too horrible. Big swells and backwash on the surface do freak out some divers, though, and most operators are reluctant to dive on those days.

The main reason that a lot of operators skip the backwall on any given day is the level of experience of the divers onboard. There's a reluctance to drop new divers into 250' of water, and there's a reluctance to put a bunch of unknown divers into 4' swells pounding into a vertical wall.

BTW, in spite of what some other posters have said, I consider the Reef's End drift to be a backwall dive. Only the first 5 minutes are inside the crater. I much prefer it over the Enenui drift around the other point.

 

[Snowbear]

There are currently 4 of us who are interested in doing a backwall dive on December 5th (Monday) Is anyone else travelling (or living) here that would like to join us? If we can find enough we may just fill a 6-pack and have the boat to ourselves.

I'd love to.... but.... somehow.... I don't think I should.

Maybe another time.

 

[kidspot]

I'd love to.... but.... somehow.... I don't think I should.

Maybe another time.

ahh - come on... you start by booking your flight You can even leave your drysuit home if you like

Aloha, Tim

P.S. One day, right?

 

[DiveMaven]

Reading through this, and other posts... I'm getting a bit concerned about conditions? I understand that mornings are best, and that bad weather can call a dive anywhere, but is it fairly common that trips to Molokini, (specifically the backwall) don't happen? I assume this is usually due to current? ...and/or rough surface conditions? The advantage of a smaller boat is less divers of course, but are there days when only the larger boats can make it?

I'm sorry, but I don't get the "let's just see what experience we have on board and where everyone feels like diving today" mentality. That's ok for picking from a few similar sites (or picking a shore dive site), but if one wants to do a specific site... a particular wreck... or the backwall, for example, then why get stuck on a boat full of newbie divers, or divers who did the backwall yesterday and miss out? I did a Vancouver Island charter awhile ago to do a particular wreck and a particular drift dive... thoughtfully planned for that day based on tide/current tables. Anyone not experiecend enough for a deep and a drift dive doesn't go... simple (and it was a fabulous dive day). So I want to go with a charter that plans their dives to the backwall and books only divers experienced enough to do so. Then IF the conditions are honestly too terrible for it, then well.. what can one do... of course there are never any guarantees on the weather. I see there are shops that have backwall dives, as well as trips to Lanai scheduled... so is diving where one wants to really too much to expect?

I don't think it's too much to expect at all, as long as you're aware that the captain will change sites due to unfavorable conditions when you arrive at Molokini. Our backwall dive in August was reduced from 2 tanks to 1 tank (we did the second tank inside the crater) because of conditions, and there were 2 divers on our boat who were complaining that the captain shouldn't have allowed the backwall dive at all. We had 3-4 foot seas with about a 3 knot current, and the upswells at depth could be pretty bad. I don't know if I'd classify a 3 knot current as "drifting" :05: since the wall was going by awfully fast, but it was a good dive and we enjoyed it a lot.

Our captain was very clear before we left the harbor that if conditions on the backwall were not favorable, that we would not be diving the backwall, but instead the inner reef. He also strongly stated the dangers and how important it was that everyone on the boat was experienced enough to handle this type of dive. He gave everyone the opportunity to get off the boat and take the other charter that day instead. Nobody did, but IMO at least 2 divers should have!

After doing the first tank, it was obvious that there were a couple of divers who had vastly overestimated their ability/comfort level. After the first tank, they were extremely vocal about how "dangerous" that dive was, etc. One of them had been caught in the same upswelling as me, and hadn't a clue how to get out of it, going from 65 feet to about 20-25 feet in no time. I thought I had gone up about 30 feet, until I downloaded my computer data and saw it was only 12 feet, so not too bad. But I knew how to get out of the upswelling and did so immediately when I knew I was caught in it.

Those 2 divers complained during the entire SI until a few of us started talking about how cool the dive was and how disappointed we were that we couldn't do our 2nd tank on the backwall. I think they realized that perhaps they had been in over their heads since the other divers on the boat didn't have the same feelings or problems as them. On the boat ride back to the harbor, we spoke with one of them who admitted that although they are rescue certified and have over 100 dives, they have only dove salt water once on vacation to the inner reefs of Key Largo (4 dives), and everything else has been in quarries. They had done a shore dive at Blackrock as their first dive in Maui, the day before the backwall dive. GADS!!!

Fortunately nobody got hurt and it was quite the eye opening experience for them. We saw them a few days later on a Lanai charter and they talked about how much they learned about their diving ability and themselves on that backwall dive.

 

[BDub]

I'm sorry, but I don't get the "let's just see what experience we have on board and where everyone feels like diving today" mentality. That's ok for picking from a few similar sites (or picking a shore dive site), but if one wants to do a specific site... a particular wreck... or the backwall, for example, then why get stuck on a boat full of newbie divers, or divers who did the backwall yesterday and miss out? I did a Vancouver Island charter awhile ago to do a

I'm not sure other ops do this, but I always use ERDA because they have 2 boats, and 3 days a week one of the boats does a 3 tank dive that is geared towards more experienced divers. The plan is always to do at least 1 of the dives at the backwall (conditions permitting ). As stated earlier, every trip I've done with them we've done the backwall at least once. There have been occasions when we were "planning" on doing 2, but conditions worsened while we were doing the first dive.

 

[Uncle Pug]

a 3 tank dive that is geared towards more experienced divers. The plan is always to do at least 1 of the dives at the backwall (conditions permitting ).

That is my beef against ERD (which up to this point I had recommended highly.) We were on a three tank dive with ERD and from my point of view there was no reason not to do the back wall. Charlie99 was on the boat as was Boomx5. Charlie... did you see any reason for them to make the switch? You alluded to the skipper checking the list and noticing several inexperienced divers... was that just an example of what could have been his reasoning or did you feel that we had some inexperienced divers on that trip? Why no explanation to the divers (or did I miss it?) Reef's End is not the backwall as far as I am concerned.

At any rate, I would prefer to go with a sixpack (like ERD used to be) and not be constrained to the lowest skill level of a cattle boat.