Death rate for experienced scuba divers

[Schwob]

Is there a summary of the average death rate for "experienced" scuba divers that summarizes things as simply as the below for skydivers?

Experienced skydivers

Once a skydiver is fully trained, the average injury rate is 0.3 injuries/1000 jumps and the fatality rate is just under 1/100,000. Some forms of parachuting undertaken by experienced parachutists do involve higher risks. For instance, public displays average an injury rate of nearly 1/1000 jumps and a fatality rate of 5/100,000 jumps.

Source:
How Safe » British Parachute Association

Please read the disclaimer before going off on a tangent: Disclaimer:
I understand that "experienced" is a "big" and not well defined word...
I understand that this will be different for exploring cave divers vs. line followers, vs. OW reef divers, vs. deep cold water divers, vs. wreck penetrators, etc...
... "on average"... is what I am looking for... more detailed "enveloping" as done with the cited parachute jumping numbers above putting the risk 5 times higher for "display jumps" would be great too of course.
I understand that comparing jumping (or really landing if you will) to scuba diving is problematic in many ways. E.g. in diving the amount of time spent doing the activity (hours under water) may possibly be more relevant than the number of dives (descents and ascents), whereas in sky diving it really ought to boil down to the number of landings...
... etc...

But it's not about comparing at all.
I just wonder if some scuba organisation may have a meaningful, but boiled down statistics akin to the above, but for scuba...

 

[northernone]

Here's one region's statisticians attempting to answer a similar question:

Estimating the risk of a scuba diving fatality in Australia. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[boulderjohn]

As someone who has followed this sort of thing over the years, I do not think you will find anything like those statistics.

I understand that this will be different for exploring cave divers vs. line followers, vs. OW reef divers, vs. deep cold water divers, vs. wreck penetrators, etc...

One of the reasons is that there is no way to sort out those issues. People who do the more dangerous kinds of dives, including cave exploration, deep decompression diving, etc., are (with only irrational exceptions) experienced divers.

A second factor is age. DAN's fatality reports indicate that one key factor in diving fatalities is age--people who die on scuba tend to be in the older range of the diving population. A key reason is that the number one factor in a scuba fatality is some sort of a coronary problem. An older diver with a heart condition is more likely to be experienced than a recently certified diver, but that diving experience is really unrelated to the fatality.

 

[Schwob]

Here's one region's statisticians attempting to answer a similar question:

Estimating the risk of a scuba diving fatality in Australia. - PubMed - NCBI

Ok, this is something...
averaging there at 0.12 fatalities per 100k dives...

 

[Schwob]

As someone who has followed this sort of thing over the years, I do not think you will find anything like those statistics.
One of the reasons is that there is no way to sort out those issues. People who do the more dangerous kinds of dives, including cave exploration, deep decompression diving, etc., are (with only irrational exceptions) experienced divers.

A second factor is age. DAN's fatality reports indicate that one key factor in diving fatalities is age--people who die on scuba tend to be in the older range of the diving population. A key reason is that the number one factor in a scuba fatality is some sort of a coronary problem. An older diver with a heart condition is more likely to be experienced than a recently certified diver, but that diving experience is really unrelated to the fatality.

Yep.
That's why I am just looking for an average... and the age difference is yet another reason why comparing e.g. to skydiving will never really work...
Maybe some insurence company somewhere out there has more statistics... one that insures big dive operators / resorts / LOBs...

 

[Olariuas]

A second factor is age. DAN's fatality reports indicate that one key factor in diving fatalities is age--people who die on scuba tend to be in the older range of the diving population..

I've just stated at age of 28- 2 years ago and look like I enter into critical age. Even if 30ish are still young for me. Anyway I am fit (more than 10 hours per week), normal bmi, no-smoker or drinker, healthy diet. I have no known heart conditions yet or hypertension.

BUT I have no clue if I have a PFO.

 

[Tom_Ivan]

Here are some statistics relating specifically to cave diving. http://www.iucrr.org/fatalities.pdf

Why are you asking?

 

[ofg-1]

The death rate for experienced SCUBA divers is the same as everyone else. 100%.

 

[Schwob]

Why are you asking?

Thanks for your reply and data.
Many of your slides are food for thought... ... that slide on cylinder pressure really drove home a point to this non-cave diver: If you go there, get good training...

I am asking out of general intrest and without particular agenda or motivation...
I happened to come across this skydiver statistic by happenstance, liked that they had the data to express rates (much easier in skydiving since one needs a ride ... the number of jumps is easily obtained... as opposed to say diving or climbing). I decided I don't like the out of my control factors (how was that chute oacked...) and my perceived odds in skydiving decades ago, so the statistics don't really matter to me, but I liked that they were looking at it and expressed rates.

I always cringe when I see an article that makes statements based on absolute numbers instead of rates... e.g. coty A had so many murders last year and and city B had ye many... Or this country has so many traffic death and that one yeah many... I usually try to find rates to make sense of things at least to some point.

Since I happen to like diving a lot, I just was curious if any one (organisation) is even trying to look at the sport to the extend to be able to try to express a fatality rate... I thought an insurance (for five operators) might... after all, they have to arrive at their insurance rates somehow...

But I have no idea really... which makes me even a bit more curious...

Edit: If no rates are known / availabe, it would in my mind "devalue" a bit what "whoever" might say about the risk in the activity, whether it is perceived as high or low. I sometimes wonder when someone betitles badic OW diving as a high risk sport where that comes from and in relation to what...

 

[Schwob]

The death rate for experienced SCUBA divers is the same as everyone else. 100%.

LOL. I did.
But of course we talk about death occuring during or immediately related to the activity of diving.