Death in Cocos from shark attack

[CuzzA]

There's always the wasp knife.

 

[The Chairman]

There's always the wasp knife.

Make sure it's in your carryon.

 

[drrich2]

I've never speared but I've dove in mixed groups a very few times where spear fishermen were present in areas where sharks are known to be in the area (and more on reef dives where guides speared lion fish and reef sharks were prone to show up), so I'm not averse to somebody responsibly handling a bang stick. I just question statistically, the way an insurance company actuary would look at the issue, does adding bang stick-wielding staff to the trip raise or reduce risk.

Let me explain some reasoning behind a couple of my recent questions. When I said it's hard to imagine an investigation would uncover anything contributory to a random tiger shark attack, some of you provided feedback, this statement by Steve_C got me thinking:

Suppose that they find there have been other incidents of aggressive tiger sharks in that area in recent years. There was at least one. Maybe others. They determine that the operator created the impression that the dives were perfectly safe. I am not saying they did this, but ad departments are ad departments. They get some data that shows that tiger sharks can be aggressive.

There are 2 possible (albeit perhaps unlikely?) scenarios:

1.) That family or friends who aren't divers find this thread, curious to hear from divers whether it at least sounds like the dive op. was innocent of wrong-doing or 'should have done more,' or was negligent. Someone with no scuba background has no way to know that.

2.) The potential attorney for the potential plaintiff hits the Internet for some preliminary browsing, trying to get a sense of the same info.

Either would ask the question; what more could have been done? If there's a substantial answer, then we can move on to whether it should have been. To non-scuba-informed family grieving a terrible loss, the idea of bang stick &/or spear gun-armed professional staff body guarding the customers where tiger sharks are a known potential hazard (however minute the predicted likelihood of attack) probably sounds like a dandy idea.

I believe that to most of us, much less so. I think an open discussion considering different viewpoints is the best way to bring that out.

Richard.

 

[CuzzA]

Make sure it's in your carryon.

True... sharks vs FAA? I'll take my chances with the sharks.

 

[The Chairman]

There was the guy out of Daytona in the 80s who accidentally popped his buddy in the leg.

 

[CuzzA]

I've never speared but I've dove in mixed groups a very few times where spear fishermen were present in areas where sharks are known to be in the area (and more on reef dives where guides speared lion fish and reef sharks were prone to show up), so I'm not averse to somebody responsibly handling a bang stick. I just question statistically, the way an insurance company actuary would look at the issue, does adding bang stick-wielding staff to the trip raise or reduce risk.

Let me explain some reasoning behind a couple of my recent questions. When I said it's hard to imagine an investigation would uncover anything contributory to a random tiger shark attack, some of you provided feedback, this statement by Steve_C got me thinking:



There are 2 possible (albeit perhaps unlikely?) scenarios:

1.) That family or friends who aren't divers find this thread, curious to hear from divers whether it at least sounds like the dive op. was innocent of wrong-doing or 'should have done more,' or was negligent. Someone with no scuba background has no way to know that.

2.) The potential attorney for the potential plaintiff hits the Internet for some preliminary browsing, trying to get a sense of the same info.

Either would ask the question; what more could have been done? If there's a substantial answer, then we can move on to whether it should have been. To non-scuba-informed family grieving a terrible loss, the idea of bang stick &/or spear gun-armed professional staff body guarding the customers where tiger sharks are a known potential hazard (however minute the predicted likelihood of attack) probably sounds like a dandy idea.

I believe that to most of us, much less so. I think an open discussion considering different viewpoints is the best way to bring that out.

Richard.

Well I'll put this issue to bed right now, most spearos dive solo for two reasons... 1) They're more productive (less comotion/noise) and 2) They don't want to be the victim of an accidental discharge from a buddy's speargun.

Also, the idea of a bangstick or speargun with a powerhead being a plausible solution is unlikely since the defense would be reactionary. When fishing and a big shark shows up you turn your focus and defense on to that shark. You're prepared to fight.

I've never been to Cocos, but it sounds like you're diving with a lot of sharks trying to get your camera as close as possible, the bite would likely be over before you could defend another diver.

I chalk this up to unfortunate and part of diving. The only way to guarantee you won't die while diving is to not dive... and that's no way to live.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

Yeah, I'm not trusting a CO2 injector to deal with an overly interested tiger shark. Unless you hit that thing in a spot that's guaranteed to put the whammy on it (or Mr. Newton dictates that the gas jet just shoots the knife out of the shark rather than blowing bubbles inside it), well ... great, now it's at arm's length and possibly hacked off at you. I'd also hope that thing is pretty hard to accidentally trigger - it would suck if it got dropped on the deck and went flying around.

The primary objective isn't to kill or even injure the shark; the primary objective is not to get bit. It's preferable if you keep it from getting into biting range or failing that, deny it a shot. The best way to accomplish that is to see it coming and if necessary get something solid or pointy in the way.

This turtle is giving a decent example; it's keeping a visual track of the shark and making sure it doesn't get a clear shot at anything but the upper part of the shell:

 

[CuzzA]

I recall reading a story on here of someone using one.

Frankly if you're that close to an adult tiger to be able to put a knife in it (in a natural not conditioned/feeding dive), I suspect it's probably too late.

 

[drrich2]

I recall reading a story on here of someone using one.

Just the challenge I needed to dig! I don't know if this is the one you heard of, but some years back we had a member, Thalassamania, who was an intelligent, educated treasure trove of scuba-related knowledge and I miss him. Here's a link to a Feb. 2007 thread, Sharks, but if you don't care to click & read it yourself, here's an excerpt from his post:

Anyway, to make a long story short, whilst diving to do soem transect work I had a Bull Shark start circle me and start displaying aggressively (back arched, pectorals down, etc.). The circles got smaller and smaller and finally he was in real tight and I was holding the shark’s head away from me with the billie, We were spinning from right to left. The shark flicked away from me and cut my leg rather badly with what I can only assume was his pectoral fin, he went out about fifteen feet and turned back at me, I reached over my shoulder and pulled the Shark Dart (with a shaft about two feet long attached) up out of the tube and over my shoulder. I glanced about for my Comrade Diver, but he was no where to be found.

The shark came straight at me and I fended him off with the bille, I brought the dart around and stabbed him with it. Nothing happened. I pulled the dart out of him, still with the billie pushing against his head. I could see that I’d not pulled the little orange clip off the dart to arm it.

It was one of the moments like when Butch and Sundance jump off the cliff, OH ...! I was pretty scared, I could not arm the damned thing without using my left hand (which was holding the shark off) or my teeth (which were holding my regulator). After what seemed like a long time spinning around with the billie held against the shark’s head (likely it was really five to ten seconds, but time is hard to judge in adrenal drenched retrospect) the shark once again retreated and went back into aggressive displaying I dropped the billie on its lanyard, reached up and pulled the clip off and recovered the billie as quickly as I could.

The shark charged once again, and once again I parried his head with the billie, as we started to turn I poked him hard with the dart and it went off with a woosh. I could see his guts being forced out his mouth and he went head up. I had a little trouble pulling the dart out due to the angle.

 

[drrich2]

Oh, and in a July, 2009 thread, Farallon shark dart, he gave some additional info. on the incident that provides insight:

The needle injected carbon dioxide gas into the shark. This had two effects, the first was a change in buoyancy that floated the shark out of the immediate vicinity and rendered it unable to maneuver, the second effect took advantage of the fact that sharks have no fascia holding their organs in place so the gas (if injected in the belly aft of the fin) would turn the shark "inside out" and leave it chomping on the guts that were blown out of it's mouth. Grizzly? Yes. But effective and it saved my life.

If a large shark is attacking you, what is the feasibility likely to be to spear it in the body behind the 'fin' (pectoral, I'm guessing?)?

Richard.