DC gloves over DUI ZIP seals

[elan]

I have a question. We are planning to get a suit for my wife and now I have a question about the gloves. I like the DC system and want to get one for her. Can there be any issue with using Zip wrist seals and putting DC rings over this ZIP wrist seals ? I never used Zip gloves though. Most of my friends use DC rings over the regular seals and they work like charm.

 

[Camerone]

I have DC rings on my suit with ZIP seals. They work okay. I've got a couple of prototype parts lying around from the machine shop which mate directly to the ZIP seal piece on one side and give you a DC ring interface on the other (so you don't need the seals.) Still working on getting that bit right, though.

There are some plusses and minuses to using the DC rings + Zip seals. I think the DC setup is the best of the ring systems out there - easiest on, easiest off, and never leaks, unless you make a stupid mistake in putting it on, like getting a thumb loop stuck in the sealing o-ring.

However, I use the heavy-duty wrist seals from DUI and snap them over the rings - the only way I can make this work is to fold it over the outside of the rings, which leaves you no inner seal on your wrist. This may or may not be a problem for you; I don't consider it an issue, but some people like the security of an inner dam. You might be able to make the thinner "standard" wrist seals work with the DC rings, but the heavy duty ones won't quite stretch the same way. The thinner standard ones don't last nearly as long, though, and the DC rings are hard on the seals. So, YMMV - I prefer to sacrifice the inner wrist dam setup for the longer seal life and increased rigidity.

The other thing - if you are going to do this, you should deliberately shorten the arms on the DUI suit about two inches shorter than you think you need. The DC rings add a few inches of length to the arms, and will place the rings right about the middle of your hands...too long. So, be forewarned and have DUI adjust the suit arms accordingly.

Finally, if you do this, you need to be extra diligent about checking the integrity of the zip seals each dive. The stress (pulling or pushing) to don and doff the gloves will pull the "ziploc" edge apart occasionally on the "middle" piece (that is, the zip-seal over the suit-side ring). It's not a complete pop-off, but you do need to watch for it, or you'll find yourself with a flooded suit if you're not careful.

I really like this setup personally... I like drygloves, but need to kit up without the gloves on the suit, which makes DUI's drygloves a non-starter. I also cave dive, where it's no-gloves and the need for wet wrist seals. Being able to easily swap with the zip-seal system gives me the best of both worlds.

Now if I can just finish the parts in the shop so I don't need to put zip-seal-over-ring, it'll be golden...

 

[Crush]

The other thing - if you are going to do this, you should deliberately shorten the arms on the DUI suit about two inches shorter than you think you need. The DC rings add a few inches of length to the arms, and will place the rings right about the middle of your hands...too long. So, be forewarned and have DUI adjust the suit arms accordingly.

+1 to that. My buddy and I got TLS 350 custom-made suits and then installed zip-seal cuffs and DC rings. His fits him fine, mine is painful as the rings can't slide back on my forearm far enough. The rings rub my hand raw. The local DUI sales rep for Alberta, Canada, is most unhelpful.

I have heard wonderful things about DUI service, but I haven't personally seen it, dealing through my sales rep.

Should I try to email DUI headquarters? Do they have a rep on SB?

 

[KathyIGH]

Hi -

This is Kathy with DUI. I saw this post and as it turns out have been chatting through SB with the 'wife' who will be getting her new DUI. I have already sent the below response but thought I would post. When I hear these types of questions I contact Pam Oliva at the factory. Pam has worked at DUI for years and years and works very closely with our Service Department and Production Department. Here was her feedback:


HD seals are thicker than standard seals, as they are dipped twice as much as a standard seal. Thicker does not always mean better. They don't seal well on people with thin wrists. They do have to be stretched out more than standard when installing on a suit, which will eventually lead to what I call "stress cracks" at the attachment point of the sleeve of a suit. We see this with standard latex from time to time, but not as prominent as the HD. With ring systems, the stress point will be where the o-ring is placed on the seal. At the end of the day, if a customer requests HD seals we will accommodate, but discuss the pro's & con's and let them make the decision. It may work for some, but not all. I recommend the double seal (neo outer/latex inner) if someone wants additional protection for their latex seals (no ring system involve here, can't do).

The majority of people that we deal with who use ring systems tend to use standard latex versus HD's.

And kudos for the comment about - if you are going to be diving with the ring system it is important to shorten the arm length.

Our Service Department is always available. You can contact us direct or through your DUI Dealer. 800-325-8439

 

[elan]

Thanks a lot Kathy , you are being very helpful. I will talk to local divers who dive the same config here about what they were doing with their sleeves. I have Bare with installed factory rings so this issue is new for me. Thanks again.

 

[piikki]

I am curious as to the sleeve length comment...

I originally used zip gloves and only later moved to DC gloves. I have had absolutely no problems with the sleeve length (I have signature suit). How does DUI decide on the sleeve length if a customer request it for DC glove use? I mean I use DC gloves but then some of the time I use just the zip seals.

Currently, obviously I use both successfully and I understand I might have just gotten lucky. Not too short and not too long for either.. But I would like to know just in case I was ordering suits in future...

To the OP - I too was advised against HD seals and have successfully used standard seals with the DC rings. I like to have the inner seal and (unlike neck seals) the standard wrist seals seem to be holding on all right. (Can you please come up with something better for zip neck seals DUI??)

I have had absolutely no problems with poppage with the standard seals and DC rings. To the point that I totally forget to check the zips after/before use because they do not ever seem to budge with the DC rings. (They never have without them either, so I am getting really quite oblivious with the checking). Reading the above comments, I think I will be sticking to standard seals and just carrying the spares, the same ones I have been carrying for a long time... Knock on wood....

P.S. I would however recommend having a dedicated set of seals for the rings. It is a strain for the seals to keep swapping them on/off the rings. If you use gloves and plain seals just have two sets.

 

[chimaera]

Hi
I am just about to order a New DUI cf 200 and want to make sure I get the arm length right for using the DC ring/drygloves. I read Camerone say take 2 inches off spine to wrist of ordinary suit and other folks say they fit ok. I have talked to DUI and emailed them but do not get much help.
I can see that if arms are to long it will be a disaster but same with too short.
Help will be appreciated along with finding a retailer of the DC rings who will mail a set to me.
I plan on using xl showa atlas 495 and thinsulite liners in the gloves
Bill

 

[Camerone]

My personal opinion (YMMV) is that DUI cuts their arms too long in general. Even with wet wrists, like when cave diving, I'm grateful for the slightly shortened arms and think "as measured" is a mistake.

The Atlas 495 gloves are pretty stretchy and you can fudge at least an inch with how much you pull them on the rings when putting the orings in place. Ditto for the seals. You have quite a bit of adjustment room.

FWIW, I understand that DUI can remove up to two inches from the sleeve length after the fact. Any more and the suit needs to be remade. Someone more knowlegdable can correct me if I'm wrong about that, but seeing as my need was right at the limit (my suit took them two tries, anyway, to get right), I would perhaps at least ask for one inch shorter and then have it altered if it's still whacking your hands on the rings

Heck, they're called "wrist rings" for a reason, not "hand rings"

 

[piikki]

Hi
I am just about to order a New DUI cf 200 and want to make sure I get the arm length right for using the DC ring/drygloves. I read Camerone say take 2 inches off spine to wrist of ordinary suit and other folks say they fit ok. I have talked to DUI and emailed them but do not get much help.
I can see that if arms are to long it will be a disaster but same with too short.
Help will be appreciated along with finding a retailer of the DC rings who will mail a set to me.
I plan on using xl showa atlas 495 and thinsulite liners in the gloves
Bill

I would appreciate very much if DUI made public their guideline. Maybe it is that ~2" but it must depend a bit on person's length too (eg for a very short person 2" can be relatively lot). It would make me nervous to order blindly.

As I said, with my first suit I did not request anything. However, I ordered zipgloves with it on the initial order and I do not know what effect that might have had on how they cut the sleeves? When I originally got the suit I thought that my sleeves were a little on the short side. I had no experience on drysuits, so I thought that maybe that's how they are but they appear a little shorter that many others' sleeves. It ended up being a blessing when I switched to DC gloves I guess.

Yet, I would worry if I was ordering a suit and knowing I use both DC gloves and regular zip seals. You want to make sure you get them right for both. The fact is that with gloves you can compensate a bit with length as you can leave the glove wrist a little longer or shorter (there is extra material even after you get them on the rings). With the seals not so much.

If your sleeves for some reason were cut very short to accommodate DC gloves, it could be the seals will sit half way up your elbows which will kill them very fast. No more fun than hanging gloves down the knuckles. And it's easier to fix too long than too short.

Hope you get someone to commit to your concern.

 

[chimaera]

Camerone.

Thanks . I had been talking to someone at DUI trying to find out exactly where the sleeve and latex wrist seal side (purportedly 1/4 in of plastic that latex is glued to ended on my wrist on an ordinary ordered suit. Seam's like an easy question. Best answer was sleeve ends at centre of wrist bone. If this is the way they sit relaxed with arms held out the way they are measured taking 2 inches off is fine. As you say there is a lot of adjustment in the gloves . Still , having the hand side of the DC ring at the base of ones thumb would really suck.
After my own investigations I was going to ask for 1.5 inches off. This could amount to 2 or even one depending on where the stock wrist to spine measure ended on ones wrist bone.
I would still like to get some more info on this before I order but 2 inches is certainly not out of the question from what I can see using a buddies DC ring and glove set as a template. With the DC glove on the suit there is 2.5 inches approx. from the base of the glove to the suit side of ring which would butt up against the plastic which the latex seal is adhered to if you can get it this tight? from the base of my thumb to the middle of my wrist bone is about 3 1/4 inches.
I admit i am a bit cautious on this suit shortening as my old bare CD4 with sitech wet rings has always been a bit on the short side. Something I could accommodate for with the atlas gloves but made for cold wrists when using wet gloves. If i do not shorten up on this suit I will most definitely have "hand rings"

Bill